Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

November 21, 2014, 6:19 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by PA

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Jim D

$

0

0

R. Gates, “Now really Cap’n. There is nothing obvious about it, and the estimate of 3C per doubling is still very much in the window of possibility.”

It is, but as a likely upper limit. Now you get into the nuts and bolts dirty work.,

You have seen this right”

Mosher and a few others like to say that there is absolutely zero evidence of a long term persistent trend. That would obviously be a faith based statement since the ocean response is perfectly consistent with a long term persistent trend. Until that faith based reasoning is changed, there will be no progress.

---

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by PA

November 21, 2014, 6:42 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by R. Gates

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

$

0

0

<i>R. Gates | November 21, 2014 at 8:53 am | Given the current solar output, the current astronomical forcing, the current biosphere, the current atmospshere, and then all likely related feedbacks, the probability is quite high that taking CO2 to 4000ppm would easily mean the complete collapse of human civilization if not the extinction of both humans but the majority of all current species.</i> Yup. The precautionary principle says we should limit CO2 to 2000 PPM or about 1.4°C (8.6 W of forcing) just to be safe.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by R. Gates

November 21, 2014, 6:46 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by PA

$

0

0

Captn,

It becomes difficult to separate out LIA “recovery” from anthropogenic forcing around the 1900 timeframe. The HCV began to erupt about the same time as the recovery from the LIA was occurring, with 1750 being the bottom of the LIA and the HCV just starting to come on line. By 1960, anthropogenic forcing really begins to dominate all other long-term forcings, and that’s about the time of peaking of TSI.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

November 21, 2014, 6:50 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Danny Thomas

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by R. Gates

$

0

0

R. Gates, “It becomes difficult to separate out LIA “recovery” from anthropogenic forcing around the 1900 timeframe.”

Right, so by assuming that 1900 was the cutoff, you have another higher end estimate. When you keep combining higher end estimates you have “sensitivity” of guestimation. It is not really sensitivity of error, that would be a scientific thing, sensitivity of guestimate is more an ideological or political thing.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Danny Thomas

November 21, 2014, 6:52 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by jim2

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

$

0

0

That describes me perfectly! Thanks for that! I’m finally in a box with my own label. Wish I’d have met you sooner. :)

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by jim2

November 21, 2014, 6:54 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Joshua

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Danny Thomas

$

0

0

Jim D finally shows his true colors – the logical fallacy of Appeal to Authority. Like I said, I’m honest when I say I don’t understand in detail how climate works. I’m not seeing much honesty in you.

I do believe, and it is just a belief since there is still a lot of uncertainty as pointed out by real climate scientists, that ACO2 will warm some. It is a huge stretch to then say it will mean catastrophe for mankind or the environment. In fact, based on what the data indicate, a little more CO2 will be a good thing.

If you believe the chart showing a rise in CO2 and a rise in temperature, you also have to believe the one showing a rise in CO2 and a rise in harvest.

You’ve got nothing of substance Jim D, just spouting BS.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Joshua

November 21, 2014, 6:54 am

≫ Next: Comment on Climate/Energy Policy and the GOP Congress by brent

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by jim2

$

0

0

Rob -

==> “What term do you prefer for those in what I described as category 1? I don’t really care what they are described as.”

I think that your use of the term reflects a fundamental point of disagreement. I recently tried to build a discussion with you by skirting past basic points of disagreement and found it to be futile. I’m not inclined to do it again, at least for now.

IMO – to go anywhere with this discussion, the starting point needs to be this comment of yours:

In order to advocate for incurring costs today to implement many activities to reduce CO2 emissions, isn’t it necessarily true that a person must point out the potential future risks associated with more CO2? Isn’t that alarmist by definition? Sounding the alarm isn’t necessarily bad.

I think that the argument that someone who is pointing out potential risks of ACO2 emissions is necessarily therefore an “alarmist” (i.e., someone who exaggerates risk) is a fundamentally flawed argument. First, because it ignores the underlying sub-text of the discussion: Identity-aggression and identity-defense. Second, because the rest of your arguments are based upon such a fundamentally faulty reasoning. No, pointing out risks does not = someone exaggerating risk. We need to deal with that fundamental problem in your argument in order to move forward.

Comment on Climate/Energy Policy and the GOP Congress by brent

November 21, 2014, 6:56 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Joshua

$

0

0

U.S. urged to look to Canada and Mexico amid energy revolution

Two American policy heavyweights think this is a moment when the United States can be persuaded to turn its focus to its North American neighbours, such as Canada.
Retired general David Petraeus and former World Bank president Robert Zoellick, who led a task force on the continent for the Council on Foreign Relations, argue that a North American energy revolution and major reforms in Mexico mean U.S. leaders should now have a political interest in embracing their neighbours.
snip
It is not a case of one pipeline. Linking electricity grids would improve efficiency; Mexico could benefit first from low-cost U.S. natural gas being piped across its border, Mr. Petraeus said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-urged-to-look-to-canada-and-mexico-amid-energy-revolution/article21645914/

---

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

November 21, 2014, 6:57 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

≪ Previous: Comment on Climate/Energy Policy and the GOP Congress by brent

$

0

0

gates, let’s go back to this one.

It becomes difficult to separate out LIA “recovery” from anthropogenic forcing around the 1900 timeframe.

That gives you a range of possible “normal” conditions. Removing the ideological guestimates, you have today is “normal” or perhaps a degree above “normal” depending on what may possibly the “normal” trend for this stretch of the Holocene. You get about 50/50 or as Judith would like to say 50/50 +/- 30%. Absolutely nothing wrong with her logic.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

November 21, 2014, 6:58 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Joshua

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

$

0

0

oops, didn’t clear my clipboard.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Joshua

November 21, 2014, 7:03 am

≫ Next: Comment on Climate/Energy Policy and the GOP Congress by AK

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

$

0

0

Danny -

Interesting article – thanks for the link.

One aspect of the trust/distrust in media data that I think is missing. The data show that libz express trust in a larger # or sources than conz, but I would guess that conz’s trust in Fox News is higher than libz trust in any single source. That would be reflected, I think, in the data that show that conz are more likely to depend on a single source (i.e. Fox).

Comment on Climate/Energy Policy and the GOP Congress by AK

November 21, 2014, 7:04 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Joshua

$

0

0

According to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_use_statistics_by_country" rel="nofollow">Wiki</a>, the US has 15,749,300 km^2 of arable land (2005). Let's suppose 2/3 of that are fitted with sunflowers or equivalent, at 5% zenith coverage and 40% efficiency (already achieved on the lab bench). That's 50,000 square meters/km^2 times ~1000 watts/square meter (sun at zenith, no clouds), that's 1Mwatt max/km^2, let's average 20% annualized is 2 terawatts of electrical energy at the PV electrodes. The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_primary_energy_consumption_and_production" rel="nofollow">US used</a> about 75 Quadrillion BTU in 2010, equivalent to about 2.5 terawatts. According to Wiki (see first link) US arable land constitutes about 10% of the total, so rolling out these sunflowers or equivalent to an equal amount of "waste" land (at 5% zenith coverage, with little ecological effect) would give a total of 4 terawatts.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

November 21, 2014, 7:07 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Joshua

≪ Previous: Comment on Climate/Energy Policy and the GOP Congress by AK

$

0

0

Joshua, “That would be reflected, I think, in the data that show that conz are more likely to depend on a single source (i.e. Fox).”

I think more conservative folks find Fox news more entertaining mainly because it is generally more upbeat.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Joshua

November 21, 2014, 7:11 am

≫ Next: Comment on Climate/Energy Policy and the GOP Congress by jim2

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

$

0

0

Cap’n -

==> “I think more conservative folks find Fox news more entertaining mainly because it is generally more upbeat.

Good point. What could be more upbeat than the constant bleating about the imminent collapse of our economy due to an anti-Christ president and godless libz who want to install a tyrannical one-world government that ignores the threat of Ebola and Sharia law and appeases terrorists?

Comment on Climate/Energy Policy and the GOP Congress by jim2

November 21, 2014, 7:15 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by jim2

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Joshua

$

0

0

From the link AK supplied …
The rig, at this stage, is for demonstration and feasiblity purposes; its capacity for CO2 recycling is currently at around 3.2 tonnes per day, and it has the capacity to produce a barrel of fuel per day. The cost of designing and building the rig was “seven figures”, half of which came from public funding received from the Federal Ministry of Education and Research.
*****

So, a seven figure rig for one barrel a day. A refinery puts out from 50,000 bbl/d to 800,000 bbl per day.

---

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by jim2

November 21, 2014, 7:16 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by jim2

≪ Previous: Comment on Climate/Energy Policy and the GOP Congress by jim2

$

0

0

Obama’s liberal buddies are in the climate change cash till up to their eyebrows.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by jim2

November 21, 2014, 7:19 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by jim2

$

0

0

The Republicans are finally acting rather than talking. This is a great day, hopefully this heralds the downfall of Barry and the Dimowit socialists. (OMG, I forgot to consult Fox News on this. Shame on me!)
From the article:
House Republicans filed a long-threatened lawsuit Friday against the Obama administration over unilateral actions on the health care law that they say are abuses of the president’s executive authority.

The lawsuit — filed against the secretaries of the Health and Human Services and Treasury Departments — focuses on two crucial aspects of the way the administration has put the Affordable Care Act into effect.

The suit accuses the Obama administration of unlawfully postponing a requirement that larger employers offer health coverage to their full-time employees or pay penalties. (Larger companies are defined as those with 50 or more employees.)

…

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102183378

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

November 21, 2014, 7:21 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Danny Thomas

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by jim2

$

0

0

Joshua, I guess it helps to have a sense of humor to begin with :)

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Danny Thomas

November 21, 2014, 7:30 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

$

0

0

CaptDallas and Joshua,

Both interesting perspectives. I’ve not seen one, but it would be interesting to find a survey based on “tone”. It seems that negative (violence/injury/accidents/dire) sells as much mass media (TeeVee at least) seem to lead news with negatives. Have ya’ll seen anything on this?

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

November 21, 2014, 7:30 am

≫ Next: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.2

≪ Previous: Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Danny Thomas

$

0

0

jim2, never underestimate the ability of any American political party to screw up a wet dream. Now that ACA has been enacted and some of the legislators have actually read some of the act, it will take some time to make it actually make it workable.