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Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by Don Monfort

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You are ridiculous, jimmy. People who stay in school and develop marketable skills get jobs. Those who drop out of school, drop out of the labor market and get EBT. They are a big drag on the economy. The economy is dragging because of bad government policies that hinder growth.


Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by Rob Ellison

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To remind people – levelised costs are based on capacity estimates taking into account usable winds or insolation in the case of wind or solar. But these – I repeat – are not the limit of alternative energy technology.

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by David Springer

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I’m talking about a lapse rate in gravity confined column of air at equilibrium. If you agree that conservation of mechanical energy requires a mole of air at the base of the column must equal the mechanical energy of a mole of air at the top when the column is in equilibrium then we have no argument. Otherwise you must explain to me how the mechanical energy gradient is maintained. Thanks.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by Jim McNelly

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A good primer on the role of livestock and forage based agriculture is Louis Bromfield’s “The Farm.” Bromfield was one of the first agriculturalists to write about and practice the art of carbon storage in the soil, building humus each year as contrasted to conventional farming that oxidizes carbon carbon out of the soil at a greater or lesser degree. Malabar Farm, now an Ohio State Park north of Columbus, still practices his early techniques of sustainability. The farm is also the home of the National Sustainable Agriculture Library. http://science.kqed.org/quest/2014/02/04/from-screenwriter-to-soil-saver-the-double-legacy-of-louis-bromfield/

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by oz4caster

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Thanks guys. I tried to present a click-able graph that linked to my post when clicked, rather than going to the image file when clicked. Apparently WordPress didn’t like that.

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by Curious George

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Robert – your quote seems to be taken from a black magic textbook. It does not make much sense; it is just buzzwords put together: “We find that in those cases where the synchronous state was followed by a steady increase in the coupling strength between the indices, the synchronous state was destroyed, after which a new climate state emerged.” It means nothing: what is a synchronous state? What is a coupling strength? What are indices? What is a new climate state?

Seriously, I agree that systems with tipping points exist.I also agree that the climate might be one of them. But we have to do a lot of work to prove it – until then it is merely an alarmist speculation.

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by Pekka Pirilä

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David,

In thermodynamic equilibrium the average sum of kinetic energy and potential energy in gravitational field does, indeed, increase with height, when the average kinetic energy is constant and the potential energy increases. (The complications due to intermolecular interaction can safely be dismissed, when we discuss gases that are not much more dense than the Earth atmosphere.)

It’s explained in most of the articles and notes that P-N has referred to, including my short notes. The explanations have also been repeated many times in this and other threads of this site.

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by Matthew R Marler


Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by kim

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OK, now let’s talk about fabricating a tapestry.
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Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by Matthew R Marler

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Steven Mosher: I never treated them as open threads.. cause they are week in review.

Well, that’s you. Lots of people have posted off-topic information, links, etc frequently without waiting for “open” threads.

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by kim

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Yikes! Hockey Sticks, Hockey Sticks everywhere, and not a drop, just ice.
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Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by AK

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What I notice is how similar the current interglacial is to the one labeled 418,400YBP, as well as the similarities between 131,400 and 335,500. While 243,800 looks like a shortened version of 131,400/335,400.

If you predict the warming trend of the current interglacial by analogy with the similar one, we would be in for another 6-7000 years of warming prior to the beginning of the next Ice Age.

Of course, it could be just similarities among random walks, or a consequence of orbital mechanics. But it is interesting.

Comment on Can cows help save the planet? by kim

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I wanna ‘Busy with Bromfield’ bumper sticker.
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Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by Jim D

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We have to remember when looking at graphs like this that the cold and warm periods are bounded by CO2 values of 190 ppm and 280 ppm, and the Ice Ages only started after CO2 values dropped towards 300 ppm in the last couple of million years. Here is one good summary of the long view for CO2, although more estimates these days put the peak nearer 1000 ppm.

The warmest part of the Cenozoic also had the highest CO2 amount.

Needless to say, sea level was also 70 meters higher prior to 35 million years ago when Antarctica first glaciated at CO2 levels near 500 ppm. Without looking at this in the context of long-term CO2, you miss an important part of the picture.

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by kim

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War Memorials.
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Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by David Springer

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The usual form of the argument is that we take horizontally oriented isothermal column of air and rotate it about its center of gravity into the vertical. Assuming a frictionless bearing in a vacuum there is no change in mechanical energy inside the cylinder. Few will argue that compression at the bottom and expansion at the top of the cylinder will result in a temperature gradient.

The next part of the argument is critical. Some claim that conduction will slowly reestablish isothermal conditions within the cylinder.

That is a mistake and here is why.

With the isothermal horizontal column of dry air rotated about the center of gravity to the vertical Claes argues that temperature gradient will be established due to compression at the bottom and expansion at the top. I agree.

However, Claes also argues that absent any external energy input that conduction will restore the vertical cylinder to isothermal. I disagree.

Conduction is accomplished by intra-molecular collisions. There is a bias in collision energy in the vertical column! A hotter molecule travelling upward to collide with a lower temperature molecule is robbed of kinetic energy because travel upward is against the force of gravity. The collision has less force in that direction whilst a falling molecule gains kinetic energy from gravity and the collision is stronger in that direction. Thus conduction is not uniform and neither is the kinetic energy distribution. The gravity induced lapse rate is maintained.

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by omanuel

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by kim

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We wuz flat runnin’ out of it, that carbon stuff, we wuz.
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Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by David Springer

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Pekka, repating an incorrect argument over and over does make it correct. It’s a common fallacy called argumentum ad populum. Write that down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for “appeal to the people”) is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition is true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: “If many believe so, it is so.”

This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, and bandwagon fallacy, and in Latin as argumentum ad numerum (“appeal to the number”), and consensus gentium (“agreement of the clans”). It is also the basis of a number of social phenomena, including communal reinforcement and the bandwagon effect. The Chinese proverb “three men make a tiger” concerns the same idea.

Comment on Open thread: Thanksgiving edition by David Springer

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Dallas re; unequal collision energy in the vertical direction due to gravitational deceleration and acceleration.

10-4 good buddy. This is what prevents the column from becoming isothermal. Nobody with a lick of sense argues that rotating an isothermal column from horizontal to vertical will not result in temperature increase at the bottom due to compression and equal-opposite decrease at the top due to expansion.

The rub is that people say conduction (conduction is small but not zero in air) will slowly restore the isothermal state. That is wrong because the collision energy is increased by gravity for falling molecules and decreased by rising molecules fighting the force of gravity.

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