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Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Jonas N

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Will J, there most certainly is an element of that, ie. that:

‘Only the the approved believers-in/followers-of/adherents-to the so called ‘consensus’-position’ are entitled to participate in the discussion, which anyway only takes place on their home turf’ and that the consensus following from these exclusion tactics somehow prove that their belief was the correct one’

But that is really only for the most shallow-minded. The smarter among them are of course trawling the better skeptic blogs both for comments on their latest hyped publication, the errors and criticisms (sometimes ‘takedowns’ there) and prepare responses and adjust their talking points etc. At times they even claim to have found the problems themselves and ‘independently’ before they were pointed out on blogs (but made this claim first afterwards) etc. Sometimes papers were retracted after (real) skeptic blog-scrutiny, or this prompted corrections/errata/addendums.

No, I’d rather say that the ‘professional’ climate scientists shun the debate, both on (even playing field) blogs or in public venues, is just because they almost always lose the debate, both the technical one or in the public eye …

And the smarter ones amongst them know it. And after all, things (observational data, emirically based science) haven’t gotten better for the alarmist side the last decade, in addition to that almost whatever they try today as ‘explanation’ contradicts what they loudly proclaimed earlier (in the days of the ‘settled science’ when ‘the debate was over’, the one they have shunned ever since that is)


Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Scott

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Tonyb
Always look forward to your comments. I am tired of the bickering back and forth but enjoy the blog and science. When the graphs are shown and reference articles linked this is a lot of fun. But the nasty back and forth gets tiresome. But thanks for your continued engagement with fan and courteous requests to push him back on the track for honest responses. You and gates back and forth is also fun.

Merry Christmas.
Scott

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Joshua

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Steven Mosher

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LOL…he’s a redbird, obviously.

JCH thanks for the christmas laugh

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Tonyb

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Scott

Thanks for your Kind comments. Rgates is pretty knowledgeable. Fan also knows a lot, Some of it factual. I enjoy his comments but you won’t tell him that will you?

I don’t know if you ever caught my Christmas piece from several years ago in which I argue, half seriously, that Charles Dickens is to blame for the Anglosphere obsession with climate change?

http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/bah-humbug/

All the best at Christmas

Tonyb

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Joshua

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David –

From Wiki:….

At the same time cultural theory, by asserting the orienting role of values, explains how the mechanisms featured in the psychometric paradigm can result in differences in risk perception among persons who hold different values. The interrelationship between individual values and perceptions of risk also calls into doubt the depiction of risk perceptions deriving from these mechanisms as products of irrationality or cognitive defect

Follow the cited link:

http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1103&context=fss_papers

Start on page 1082

from page 1088:

In sum, individuals adopt stances towards risk that express their commitment to particular ways of life. Their risk perceptions might or might not be accurate when evaluated from an actuarial standpoint; policies based on them might or might not be in the interest of society measured according to any welfarist metric. Nevertheless, which activities individuals view as dangerous and which policies they views as effective embody coherent visions of social justice and individual value.

There’s quite a bit more. They are, rather explicitly, arguing against the view that beliefs (in this case w/r/t risk and associated policies) are irrational.

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Otter (ClimateOtter on Twitter)

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Ones which are no longer in use?

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Joshua

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Hammer/nail, David. Hammer/nail.


Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Joshua

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I love this concept of “censored.”

Persecution complex much?

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Steven Mosher

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“In short, I suspect they see that their time could be better spent.”

well of course they suspect their time could be better spent doing something else because they are doing something else.

I imagine each has their own reasons.

I’m glad they were there when I first became aware of the issue.
my original home site.

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Steve Fitzpatrick

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Sure, they have decided to do other things. But does that mean they think they have accomplished their original objectives, or rather that their objectives have changed? I think it interesting which it is.

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Joshua

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Judith –

==> “Politically correct climate change orthodoxy has destroyed our ability to think rationally about the environment…”

Interesting alarmism neocons. I mean what with their brilliant analysis and predictions about the best policy for Iraq, why would we question the veracity of their analysis and predictions on something so comparatively simple as economics and the climate?

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by John Smith (it's my real name)

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my humble predictions for the future
my gift to the blogosphere…you are welcome

today is Christmas day…
he that outlives this day and comes safe…
oops… wrong holiday

great amounts of formerly sequestered carbon has been released so likely that much damage has already been done if the theory holds
(unlikely, as I too think sensitivity is low and nature holds surprises)
I say this issue shall be little remember’ed
as technical innovation will overtake it

… the true great crisis facing humanity is not climate change…it is
DESK TOP HUMAN REPRODUCTION
soon making babies will no longer be done the old fashioned way…to much risk…to much left to chance

what does Gaia do to those attributes no longer required for promulgation of the species?
history shows that she eliminates them without prejudice

cinch up your pants…it’s gonna get weird
:)

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Daniel

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No absolute authority? Interesting concept or way of going about dealing with morality. So the authority is he who can impose his will? The authority isn’t the best idea but the biggest gun? If you refer to God as authority, what gives him the authority? Apparently his ability to threaten you. And this is what you want as a foundation for moral behavior? Interesting.

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Planning Engineer

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Thank you Max. Best holiday wishes to all.


Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Steven Mosher

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” But does that mean they think they have accomplished their original objectives, or rather that their objectives have changed? I think it interesting which it is.”

That’s a more interesting question. I’d rather look at that than speculate
about their reasons for stopping.

What were there objectives.. we have some evidence

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by gbaikie

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The ten commandent are what God is telling some free slaves to do.
And first thing to do, was to believe in only one god.

As for Ten commandents I will give to all the silly Atheists.

First an explanation:
There are apparently many gods and you have chosen the least likely idea that gods don’t exist.
So your “first commandment” is:
You have a choice, abandon the mad idea or stick to your guns.

One could say the universe or reality is giving you these choices as a commandment.
Personally I don’t spend much time believing in a god. But there seems to be a lot of evidence that gods do exist. And even stronger evidence that people will always believe in “some kind of god”.
One could argue a god of chaos might be least “dogma”. But I tend to be dismissive of chaos gods in general. Or it seems weak.
I would say that believing or worshiping a god is a learning method or method of gaining insight or inspiration. And it’s not something I do- at least not in some set of formal or ritual fashion. And I tend to give very broad definition of idols, I think the Jewish idea of not worshiping idols is very good idea. And extend the idea of idols to mental model of a god and give weight to idea of unknowable nature god.
In summary, god exists, but this existence doesn’t necessary suggest that I am suppose to do A or B. Whereas the “moral principals” of various religions [which could be directly from some god] are more relevant- as are like a tested theory.
So I am not atheist, I could be a some kind of believer in some faith but I am not, though I think organized religion is very important, and I like the sacred and the holy.

In summary if you think you don’t believe in a god.
So what?
I think lots of so called believer don’t believe in a god. If one believe in a god, one would generally devote entire life to it. And I am not sure most Monks spending enough attention to their calling. Whereas people who regard themselves as strong believer are mostly talking about their involvement religious social life- they go to church, they do church activities or various kinds.
Which lead to a suggestion. Stop hating religious people.
So:
1] abandon the mad idea or stick to your guns
2] Stop hating religious people.

The hating might have something to do with envy.

3} Be happy.

This is rather difficult and requires skill and knowledge to do.
If you are lost on the subject, I would suggest that Dennis Prager
has some useful insights on the topic:

http://www.prageruniversity.com/Life-Studies/Why-Be-Happy.html#.VJxWdfsHA

And I’ll keep it at 3.
I believe the greatest merit of 10 commandments, is less is better than more. Or the 10 commandments was not adding more rules, but was getting rid hundreds of stupid laws.

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by ChrisM

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Max
Germany is just one part of a supergrid across northern Europe and it is the instantaneous transnational power flows that hide the problems caused by the renewables. The correct question (as I believe PE alluded to) is why is Germany’s power the second most expensive in Europe, just behind Denmark which has even higher renewables penetration? Also, Germany has the populace protesting about the plans to cover the country in new transmission lines, which is the hidden part of renewable penetration. Your comments about it causing no problems seem different to what the Germans are saying: http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/germanys-green-energy-destabilizing-electric-grids/ Who are we to believe?
Your China figures are out of date. In 2013, they commissioned two big nukes so that generation took a massive leap up. The last graph here:
http://www.eia.gov/countries/cab.cfm?fips=ch gives you a better idea of what their intentions for the next 25 years are. China has about 20% of its windfarms not connected to the grid because of no transmission lines and there is unlikely to be any change in that for the foreseeable future. They are having similar problems to Germany
The fuel cost of wind might be low (it isn’t zero as they need to backfeed from the grid to motor during light winds) but what about the resources needed to make them or the solar cells? Both the rare earth smelting and solar cell manufacture are very polluting industries, especially the way they are done in China.

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by Steve Fitzpatrick

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Yes, there is some information.

From the “About” tab at the site:
“We aim to provide a quick response to developing stories and provide the context sometimes missing in mainstream commentary. The discussion here is restricted to scientific topics and will not get involved in any political or economic implications of the science.”

The second sentence seems a wee bit of a stretch, considering that all the contributors have made clear they think CO2 emissions must be cut…. based, of course, on dictates of ‘the science’. But have they concluded that ‘a quick response providing context’ is no longer needed?

In the post they say, “The conversations have also changed, and (for the most part) have become more nuanced. And a bunch of early career researchers with enthusiasm, time to spare and things to say, have morphed into institute directors and administrators with lots of new pressures.” OK, so too busy to blog. But maybe a little different perspective as well.

They ask, “Is RealClimate’s mission ‘Climate science from climate scientists’ still needed?”, and go on to list a bunch of other blogging efforts (odd that Science of Doom, Troy Masters, and Judith are not on the list ;-) ), but then say, “However, none of these efforts duplicate RealClimate in terms of reach or content or community…..We therefore feel that RealClimate still has a role, albeit one that is not tied solely to the current list of contributors. Consequently we need to find ways to transition the site into something that is more of an institution rather than just somewhere we blog.”

Not sure what to make of the ‘reach’ and ‘community’ parts. The site traffic is quite low.

Comment on Climate blogosphere discussion thread by JustinWonder

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Steve Fitzpatrick

1. True
2. True
3. Maybe – I am skeptical of the accuracy of the (chaotic) models and the temperature measurements.
4. Never underestimate the power of denial.

Btw, I enjoy reading your thoughtful comments.

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