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Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by Rob Ellison

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Here I was thinking it couldn’t get any worse.

In the 2007 paper Miskolczi fraudulently claims fundamental physical properties that are not applicable in the context. When questioned it appears that – yes – the physical properties don’t apply and the equations are based purely on data that can’t possibly be accurate enough to demonstrate the point.

Nothing could persuade me to look at anything further from this person.

But the astonishing thing here is diversity and abundance of mad theories that emerge from the woodwork.


Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

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Ozone makes up only 0.6 ppm of the atmosphere — 700 times lower than CO2. Yet without it you’d be dead.

Maybe ozone is people food?

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by Vaughan Pratt

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Just spray the paint on very gradually.

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

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“For 60% of thermal emission from the surface, 2 ms after emission the photon is in space and gone permanently.”

No, I don’t think so. All of the IR photons in CO2’s absorption bands are absorbed quickly — within less than a meter, I think. Then some are reemitted upward, then more absorption, etc…..until the photons emitted from CO2 less than one optical pathlength from the TOA escape to space.

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

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Wag: Water vapor is not “unlimited,” as I wrote above. Why do you keep repeating a falsehood?

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

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Bob: What you’re missing is that CO2 isn’t the ONLY factor that determines surface temperatures.

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by kim

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Well, he must have believed the blade when it emerged so magically from his Mannometric Machinator.
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Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by kim

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No shoving, we’ll all get our turn.
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Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

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It depends how smart your doubt it.Miskolczi’s isn’t that smart.

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by kim

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OK, so how about calculated at the right heights?
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Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by kim

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Mebbe not so smart, but original, plausible, and thought-provoking.
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Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by kim

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Beyond robust, it’s burly.
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Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by kim

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Brand X rocks, er Rocking.
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Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

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Judith wrote:
“The only potentially interesting point is whether the clear sky atmospheric optical depth has remained the same in the face of rising CO2, implying a decrease in water vapor.”

This study says it does not:

“Increases in greenhouse forcing inferred from the outgoing longwave radiation spectra of the Earth in 1970 and 1997,” J.E. Harries et al, Nature 410, 355-357 (15 March 2001).

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6826/abs/410355a0.html


Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by Rud Istvan

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True. But you leave out the part Arhenius got wrong. More CO2 raises the optical depth (in layman speak, the top of the GHG radiative ‘fog’ above which IR is free to radiate to space and cool). This has two consequences. First, by Euclidean geometry, there is a greater radiating surface so more cooling. Second, by altitude lapse rate, the higher ‘fog top’ is colder, so cools less per surface time flux.
The net is a logarithmic relationship first posited by Guy Callendar in 1938. More CO2 means less warming. But not none, as M asserts.
M’s theory that GE ‘does not exist’ is nonsense. See downthread. What he presumably meant (assuming rational thought, perhaps a shakey presumption) was that it has long been saturated due to feedbacks. Unlikely.
But that does not change the basic log physics, which say more CO2 contributes less direct warming.
If you wish to be well regarded here, you really should show better mastery of simple basics, rather than post an easy Google images chart proving only that you don’t.
For the elementary school version of this (here kindergarten) basic physics lesson, see essay Sensitive Uncertainty in Blowing Smoke, a book Judith recommended that you have evidently not yet read. Cheap.

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

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As the paper says atop its 2nd page; “We evaluate the radiative transfer in the range 50–100,000/cm (0.1–200 microns) as a combined solar and thermal calculation.”

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

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Pekka: What do you mean by “far?”

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by curryja

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This is a good study, but it addresses a different issue; this paper infers increases in non water vapor greenhouse gases

Comment on Miskolczi discussion thread by David Appell (@davidappell)

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Popes: Can you please cite a few relevant papers?

If “polar ice cycles” exist on 10^4 – 10^5 timescales, they are still small to mean much for the climate in 2100.

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