Comment on The albedo of Earth by Jack Smith, TX

March 11, 2015, 9:40 am

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If Bill H.R. 1030, dubbed the Secret Science Reform Act of 2015. If passed, it will prohibit the Environmental Protection Agency from making assessments or passing regulation “based on science that is not transparent or reproducible”.

http://www.upressonline.com/2015/03/environmental-protection-agency-faces-republican-reform-boca-representative-will-get-second-swing/

If you think this is a good idea be sure to let your representative know.
This research paper (Albedo of Earth) could meet the qualifications of H.R. 1030 and be used to destroy the EPA’s regulatory power.

On further thought, maybe this legislation should apply to the entire government! No more EPA, DOE, FDA!! No more models, untestable theories and no more research money wasted on environmental/energy issues.

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by JCH

March 11, 2015, 9:49 am

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Danny – basically people went at it different ways. Hansen concluded fairly quickly, through new ARGO data, that there was no more missing heat. he estimated the imbalance at .58. Graeme Stephens estimated it at .6. and he sticking with that number in this paper. Trenberth was a stickler. He wants the entire thing pinned down. There a places ARGO does not measure. I don’t see how he can be faulted for that. Sounds rather scientific to me.

What is hilarious here is that people think this paper has that much to do with Trenberth. Better monitoring equipment? Yes. That’s about it.

This lack of precise knowledge of surface energy fluxes profoundly affects our ability to understand how Earth’s climate responds to increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases. – Graeme Stephens et al., 2012

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by Doug Proctor

March 11, 2015, 9:56 am

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Does the paper speak to symmetry but not to a stable temperature/gross absorbed solar energy? That albedo changes so as to maintain a general value, i.e. reflection percentage of the TSI TOA, but the study does not say anything about what internal energy build-up might be should land mass area or – horrors! – the composition of the atmosphere change?

Stability of an engine’s speed is not a reflection of its rpm (outside too high or too low for the engine to function). A consistent albedo can still have Earth freezing or frying.

(I’m not arguing for anything other than the study doesn’t relate to the CAGW argument except as relating to the conservative nature of total Earth processes. Due to the Earth’s orbital eccentricity, small as it is, the SH receives some 3.4% total SI more than the NH and yet is, on an annual basis, about 2C cooler than the NH. Obviously there is some increased reflection OR major energy transference going on between the hemispheres.)

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by Danny Thomas

March 11, 2015, 9:56 am

≫ Next: Comment on The albedo of Earth by Scott

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PMHinSC,

I’m still in the process of self-labeling and consider myself a warmer/lukewarmer seeking cause. As I still see warming, I for one have not changed that perception. However am more comfortable that alarmism is not an appropriate response. Hope this answers, if only from me. Great question for JimD, JCH, R.Gates and maybe a few others.

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by Scott

March 11, 2015, 10:00 am

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Tonyb
CMIP5 is the software. Don’t think faster processors improve things much. PCMDI at LLNL has fast computrers but still produces flawed predictions of temps and cloud respnses. This is hard.
Scott

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Comment on ‘Big players’ and the climate science boom by RiHo08

March 11, 2015, 10:01 am

≫ Next: Comment on The albedo of Earth by swood1000

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It seems that messianic types like this Guy guy, advocate their message kind of like: “Look at me.” For those of modest needs for adulation, the god (small characters) type, a church of 5 or so individuals will do. For those seeking a greater congregation, topics other than about “God” are needed, like world cataclysm from volcanos (virgins needed), earthquakes (shamans only need apply), and then there is Climate Change. There is money in this game as well as notoriety. Once there is money to be made, the proclamations become more strident and silly until one sees interviews of Guy McPherson. I am sure that Trenberth, Mann, Schmidt and others would shun such hyperbole, even by their own standards as they would loose their funding audience.

But the fact remains: Climate Catastrophe has had a good run, and, as it enters its twilight, fringe elements begin to steal the show. As in the French Revolution, even the extremist Robespierre went to the guillotine. It seems that catastrophists take themselves too seriously, believing they must perish to be remembered. There is precedent for this thinking.

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by swood1000

March 11, 2015, 10:10 am

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<blockquote>The .6 W/m^2 imbalance in the paper is between hemispheres, not between earth and space. </blockquote> <blockquote>No, I think it is indeed between earth and space. </blockquote> Aren't they saying that it is an asymmetry in the OLR emitted from the SH compared to the NH, resulting in an imbalance between the hemispheres that causes offsetting transports of heat between the hemispheres? <blockquote>Although Earth is very near this symmetric state, it is out of energy balance, with less outgoing longwave radiative (OLR) emitted from the SH than the NH. This hemispheric asymmetry in OLR contributes to the approximate 0.6Wm?² imbalance observed and is associated with offsetting transports of heat from north to south in the atmosphere and from south to north in the oceans. </blockquote>

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by clivebest

March 11, 2015, 10:11 am

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The model is just analogous to Lovelock’s ‘Daisy World’. It is not intended to describe the ‘Earth’ as such. It only shows how a planet dominated by a liquid water surface can regulate it’s temperaure.

and where do we see most cloud cover ? Over warm tropical oceans.

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Comment on IPCC in transition by Pooh, Dixie

March 11, 2015, 10:15 am

≫ Next: Comment on The albedo of Earth by Lucifer

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Then it would not be “fair”, would it?

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by Lucifer

March 11, 2015, 10:15 am

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Right – I don’t see the implication that albedo would change as a negative feedback to any forcing.

However, there are large implications for CAGW in the other findings:
albedo in the models is not accurate, at least with respect to the symmetry.

And as JCH pointed out in this link, ( see slide 11 ),
when albedos are constrained to be as CERES observations, the precipitation fields change dramatically.

Perhaps that doesn’t matter, but if the models have such errors within,
are we sure they have the net energy balance right?

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by R. Gates

March 11, 2015, 10:15 am

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Very interesting study. Interesting to see they acknowledge the current net energy imbalance of the planet in a range very close to other findings, around 0.6 w/m^2.

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Comment on ‘Big players’ and the climate science boom by Pooh, Dixie

March 11, 2015, 10:17 am

≫ Next: Comment on The albedo of Earth by Danny Thomas

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What if the buffalo herd had turned around and run the other way?

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by Danny Thomas

March 11, 2015, 10:18 am

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Swood & JCH,

“Aren’t they saying that it is an asymmetry in the OLR emitted from the SH compared to the NH, resulting in an imbalance between the hemispheres that causes offsetting transports of heat between the hemispheres?”

This was my impression also which lead to my thinking that the Antarctic ice is a response to this imbalance (and I may be completely off base here).
There seem to be two different discussions, missing heat (in oceans .58) and the .6 W/m^2 imbalance in the paper is earth/sun.

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by aaron

March 11, 2015, 10:24 am

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Right. Too much is being inferred/assumed regarding IR forcing, this paper shows potential ways to improve models, it does not show albedo response to IR forcing over long term. See Wagathon above, no correlation of albedo and greenhouse gasses in earthshine paper.

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Comment on ‘Big players’ and the climate science boom by Pooh, Dixie

March 11, 2015, 10:27 am

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Good, but perhaps add: … and net highly positive climate feedbacks with be Catastrophic. Hence the fearmongering and Agenda 21.

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by Lucifer

March 11, 2015, 10:29 am

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Perhaps, though I wonder how we get from uncertainties of:
Reflected Solar +/- 2.0 and OLR +/- 3.3 to imbalance +/- 0.4

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Comment on The albedo of Earth by tonyb

March 11, 2015, 10:29 am

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Scott

Well, that’s my taxpayers money going into that computer as the Met Office is a Govt dept so I have a vested interest..

If it won’t substantially improve the accuracy of all manner of climate and weather related activities including near and long term forecasts is the intention primarily to speed up the process?

tonyb

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