JImD
By saying that the deep ocean is cooling, are you referring to the abyssal deep? If so, the claim is that it is warming.
tonyb
Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by tonyb
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Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by Jim D
tonyb, the abstract says this ” The global integral of vertical heat flux shows an upward heat transport in the deep ocean, suggesting a cooling trend in the deep ocean.” This is possible because the deep ocean is much less affected by the rise in ocean heat content coming from the surface energy imbalance, so maybe they can spot such trends there.
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Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by kim
Good Gaia, let these alarmist pray at the shrine of the thermodynamic gods. They are ancient and implacable, and so sadly neglected.
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Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by Danny Thomas
TonyB,
I have no specific questions at this time, but so much appreciate your offerings and his (less cryptic ones). If you respond to Mosher I will read with interest. My comment to him was w/r/t his commentary on methodology and I wanted him to know that I received that message. If you’ll note, I even chided him a bit as he gave differing values than what he cited from you w/o showing his work (that was too much fun). Sounds like you and Steven still have some things to work out, but somehow I “believe” that you will do so.
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Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by JCH
Purkey and Johnson said the abyssal ocean is warming, but by a very small amount. Wunsh says it is net cooling, but by a very small amount. Wunsch found significant warming in the southern abyssal oceans, which is interesting given Stephens just found that the energy imbalance is currently accumulating in the southern oceans.
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Comment on Week in review by c1ue
The problem is: the amount of warming – even at the numbers you push – are way, way below what the models project.
And if the models are wrong, then we’re only looking at 1 degree of temperature increase by 2100. So what?
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Comment on The albedo of Earth by kim
At BEST, it’s a gross device.
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Comment on Week in review by c1ue
GaryM,
I find great fault with your characterizations above.
I am all for clean energy – if it is unsubsidized cost comparable to existing energy sources.
Thus what you’re really attacking is the means why which a perfectly admirable goal is to be achieved: the demagogues want to do something now, but this doesn’t inherently mean the goal is unworthy.
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Comment on Week in review by curryja
Singer used the ‘reply all’ button to respond to a message sent by Marc Morano. This particular email list originates from Marc Morano; on twitter he explained that he cc’ed people he thought might be interested in an article he wrote (people active on twitter/blogs/newsletters).
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Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by KenW
Sorry, I’ll just deny this for the third time. Maybe the cock will crow now.
The forces that drive heat through the oceans are huge. The missing heat is hopelessly smaller than the error in any measurement of ocean heat flux. Any supposed “missing” heat could easily be somewhere else or be caused by something completely different.
The sun drives the ocean and the ocean drives the atmosphere. A supposed effect of excess CO2 in the atmosphere on the ocean temperature is indistinguishable from zero. The citation of such appears to be just a weak alibi for a failing theory.
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Comment on Week in review by kim
Plus, it’s nearly a dead certainty that a degree of warming will be net beneficial. Haven’t all of the last one degree warmings been net beneficial?
And the greening, oh the green green greening. Wouldn’t it be nice to have spring in the young.
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Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by Danny Thomas
ATTP, JIM D, TonyB, JCH et al,
Here’s my rookie thinking. If SLR is increasing deep pressure then even if sea water reaches it’s max. “compressibility” then would there not be some heat generated energy and then passed thru the system towards the surface via circulation and/or conduction? (Then I wonder if measurable/substantial)
ATTP specifically, if water thermally expands, once that heat is removed wouldn’t that water then return to the “unexpanded” state?
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Comment on Week in review by Steven Mosher
So you think it was kind of black flag operation?
Bad question. Stop asking bad questions. It makes you look stupid. Nothing indicates that I think this.
Singer recently included me on a mail. It was mistaken identity.
I think it is dangerous to read singer’s mind or guess about motivations.
hence my example.
A less slanted way to write the piece would be to say
“Singer recently wrote an email to a number of well known climate science skeptics. In addition, he included Judith Curry on the mail.”
It’s reasonable to conclude that Singer sees her as a potential ally in helping to thwart the distribution of the film. But that does not mean he sees her as an ally in regards to his scientific views.
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Comment on Week in review by Joshua
So do you think that Singer just included everyone was on the original list by using “reply all – without any consideration of whether the recipients would be interested? Or do you think that he only left the names of those he felt would be more receptive to his efforts?
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Comment on Week in review by Joshua
==> “Bad question. Stop asking bad questions. ”
Only a bad question if I then claim it was a good faith effort.
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Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by Carrick
R Gates:
The idea that energy just accumulates in the ocean without effects on weather patterns, cryosphere, atmosphere, etc. is nonsense.
The issue isn’t whether there is an effect, but the magnitude of it.
It’s well recognized that if more heat energy was sequestered in the deep ocean, the net impact of anthropogenic forcing would be significantly ameliorated.
This rests on the fact that the deep oceans are colder than the above waters and have a much larger thermal mass..
Since you can’t transfer heat energy from a cold object to a warm object without work being done on the system, any heat energy transferred to the deep oceans is basically lost to the surface climate system.
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Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by Jim D
Wunsch was part of the Liang paper and had a paper with similar suggestions of abyssal cooling last summer. There were some misleading articles in the press about that too, and he wrote an unpublished response to an editor which probably applies here too.
http://wwwf.imperial.ac.uk/blog/climate-at-imperial/2014/08/04/ocean-warming-in-the-media/
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Comment on Adaptive problem solving: Integral approaches to climate change by Chic Bowdrie
When did all those measurements of the temperatures of the abysses happen?
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Comment on Week in review by kim
Now that bauble flashes gaudily with one brilliant insight outshining the last.
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Comment on Week in review by Jim D
kim, “a degree” but not three or four of them.
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