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Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by PA

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nebakhet | June 5, 2015 at 6:27 am | Reply
When the UAH satellite temperature record was adjusted recently, warmists accepted such adjustment were a valid part of the scientific process, because we are pro-science and rational people.

When the NOAA record is adjusted, skeptics go nuclear, spewing bile and conspiracy theories without any focused argument.

This is a warmist fantasy.

The numerous and particularly vicious attacks of the warmunists against any study, data, or scientist who casts the slightest doubt on global warming orthodoxy is legendary.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/17/u-s-college-professor-demands-imprisonment-for-climate-change-deniers/
http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/11/hansen-wants-skeptics-in-jail/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/sen-whitehouse-d-ri-suggests-using-rico-laws-global-warming-skeptics_963007.html

The constant calls to jail skeptics by warmunists are offensive to any honest freedom loving American. The time has come to terminate the several $ 10s of billions in annual climate change funding until the advocates learn to operate by the rules of fair and honest debate in a free society.


Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by PA

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Well… Yeah.

That seems to be an accurate description of the problem.

Do you have any solutions to suggest or do you see it as an insolvable problem.

Comment on Why Skeptics hate climate skeptics by aplanningengineer

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Thank you! (I don’t thank everyone I should – It would get tedious) It’s good to have some support .

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by ordvic

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Zeke Hausfather,

I have never really bought into the definition of hiatus or pause being applied to post ’98 records, I have always just looked at it as a lower trend line from ’78. It amuses me that both sides really get caught up in the description battle and it seems as if real science suffers in a silly scirmish. I know politics and propaganda have a lot to do with it and that reflects badly on science IMO.

As far as all the dispute over temperature adjustments I would blame that on a lack of communication or transparency. In particular you are saying that it is interesting or coincidental that Berkeley Earth, C&W and now Burke et al are all very similar in their upward trending adjustments. Now wouldn’t that seem like an obvious red flag, to any outside observer, if there is a question as to why or how these adjustments are made? Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the upward trend of both B.E. and C&W attributed to the addition of arctic temperatures where as Burke et al is from adjustments to marine records? I don’t know which would be more coincidental? Do you see any possibility that these coincidents could be rationaly explained?

Comment on Why Skeptics hate climate skeptics by PA

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Gee. PE

I always had pegged you as more of a lukewarmer than a skeptic…

You are one of the more balanced, thoughtful, and objective posters.

You would be well served to view the “denier” accusations as more of a comment on the character of the accusers.

The skeptics are asking that warmunists operate under traditional rules of proof and debate which is not unreasonable. That the warmers think requiring proof, and fair and honest debate, is unreasonable… is worrisome indication.

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by David Wojick

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The solution is to live with the problem. The only way to know what is happening is to build the proper systems to measure it. Wanting to know what the average global temperature is requires a lot, although the satellites get us a lot closer than these goofy statistical models. What it once was is unknowable. Many facts about the past are simply unknowable, also about the present for that matter. Science is not omniscient.

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by climatereason

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by ordvic

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Tony B, It’s not a matter of denial for me it’s simply a matter of how long you make a trendline. If you go from ’78 to ’98 and then ’98 to present you have a robust upward trend followed by a fairly flat upward trend on most all records. If instead you measure from ’78 to present you get a less robust upward trend. One could say both there is a pause and there isn’t a pause and not be lying.


Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by PA

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Whatever it’s cause it existed. Why do some people deny it?

Tonyb

They must be the “Deniers” that everybody dislikes.

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by Steven Mosher

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Satellites don’t measure temperature. Peroid.
They record brightness at the sensor.
From that data you have to apply models, regressions, first guesses, and then you get an estimate of what the temperature is. If you had ever cared to look at validation you would be stunned.
For example rss adjusted temperature data using a gcm. Uah has different approaches but they all involve adjusting data with models.

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by curryja

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worse than that; satellite measures voltage

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by climatereason

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So presumably neither mosh nor Judith would use the satellite record for sea level change? That would be wise as its a terrible and inaccurate system .

Tonyb

Comment on Week in review – science edition by Salvatore del Prete

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by John Kennedy (@micefearboggis)

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Hello,

Regarding the 0.12degC number. In our table 5, we presented results from matches between individual ship and buoy observations. Globally, there were 21,870 matches with a mean SST difference of of 0.12degC and a standard deviation of 0.85degC. This gives a standard error of 0.01degC to two decimal places.

The question is, what is the appropriate uncertainty – standard deviation or standard error – to assign to that mean difference when adjusting the ship data as a whole? (the “as a whole” bit is key). I think that the appropriate uncertainty is the standard error of 0.01degC rather than 0.85degC. Here’s why…

We know that individual ships will be biased differently and that every measurement from any one of those ships will have additional random errors that change from one measurement to the next. We can estimate the uncertainties associated with these two factors and this has been done several times. A large component of the standard deviation of the difference between the SSTs measured by ships and SSTs measured by buoys will come from those two factors. If the population of ships *as a whole* was unbiased (i.e. the individual ship biases had a mean of zero) then averaging all the measurements together from all the ships would have a mean close to zero. You would expect it, in fact, to be within a few standard errors of zero.

However, the mean of all the observations is 0.12C, which suggests there is some common bias across the fleet of ships. The uncertainty of the mean of that distribution is the standard error. It’s this common bias and its uncertainty we are interested in removing before combining ship and buoy data. The uncertainties associated with the other types of error that affect single observations are also factored in through the uncertainty estimates (in the case of HadSST3) or via the relative weights given to ship and buoy observations (in ERSST).

To make it clearer we can ask what the same numbers tell us about the bias in a single solitary ship observation. In that case, our best estimate of the bias in that single solitary ship observations is still 0.12degC, but in this case the uncertainty would be the standard deviation of 0.85degC which is close to the uncertainty associated with errors of a single ship observation estimated in other ways. As I mentioned before, that uncertainty is already included.

The question has also been raised as to whether it is better to adjust the ship data using the 0.12degC or to adjust the buoy data. There are arguments both ways. Adjusting the ship data brings the biased ships into line with the unbiased buoys. On the other hand adjusting the buoy data brings the buoys into line with the ship data, which constitute the majority of the historical record. Either way, when these are presented as anomalies relative to the 1961-1990 base period, you have to take into account the fact that data from the climatology period was mostly ship data. Subtracting 0.12C from the ship data would cool the climatology by 0.12C (more or less) which would mean that the anomaly for a drifting buoy observation relative to that climatology would increase by that amount. If you are looking at anomalies, the net effect of adjusting the ship data is the same as the net effect of adjusting the buoy data.

When we made HadSST3, one of the tests we did was try both. There was, as expected, little difference between the two choices. See part 2 of the HadSST3 paper, section 4.4 “Exploring the sensitivity of bias adjustments”

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadsst3/

Cheers,

John

Comment on Week in review – science edition by PA

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Better building materials make more sense than square miles of white elephant renewable eye-sores.


Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by John Kennedy (@micefearboggis)

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“(sorry John-I know you will pop up here)”

Pop!

Hi Tony,

By now, you can probably fill in my half of the argument. But anyway…

A lot of work has been done trying to understand uncertainties in the historical record. A flavour of this can be had by reading the papers written about the current generation of in situ SST data sets. E.g.

COBE-SST-2 (Hirahara et al. 2014)
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-12-00837.1

ERSSTv4 (Huang et al. 2015 and Liu et al. 2015):
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-14-00006.1
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-14-00007.1

HadSST3: (Kennedy et al. 2011 and Kennedy et al. 2011)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/wol1/doi/10.1029/2010JD015218/full
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/wol1/doi/10.1029/2010JD015220/full
copies here: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadsst3/

As well as various papers looking at the uncertainties specifically e.g.
Kent et al. Effects of instrumentation changes on sea surface temperature measured in situ
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wcc.55/abstract

Are observations perfectly reliable? No, never. Can we make reasonable estimates of the uncertainties? Yes.

Best regards,

John

Comment on Solar grid parity? by Vincent Dekker (@VincentDekker4)

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Wow, I don’t know who, but somebody is making an awfull lot of money out there in Palo Alto. Might be very much worthwile to see into this. If you like you can start importing systems bought in Germany or The Netherlands :-)) 3300 WP Yingli Solar including inverter etc and installation fee € 4677= $5200. Installation fee will be some $ 500 I guess. So $ 4700 for all the hardware. No reason for the US to be more expensive. See for example http://mitchellvandermeij.nl/prijzen/12-zonnepanelen/

Comment on Week in review – science edition by curryja

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I read the paper, albeit not very carefully. Apparently the journal won’t allow them to even post the manuscript online. Split the difference on this one. The rebutters made some valid points (which had already been made in the blogosphere), but they did not come close to invalidating the entire paper. I’m surprised Monckton hasn’t responded yet, he is usually pretty quick off the mark.

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by curryja

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Hi John, thanks much for these remarks

Comment on Week in review – science edition by Joshua

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