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Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.3

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Alexander, “propagation of error isn’t related to standard deviation v. standard error though, it is how you translate uncertainty through a function of what you’re measuring.”

In my opinion you need to consider both what you are measuring and what that measure is intended to represent. If you are looking for a metric to represent energy, you have the zeroth law to consider.

That leads to the “unforced” variability or how much the temperature metric can vary with no change in the energy it is supposed to represent.

So while propagation of error isn’t related to sd v se for a particular data set you need to consider how that data set can impact overall propagation of error. That is what leads to SD being preferred.

All of this focus on “surface” data is due to the “surface” data not meeting expectations. Since the expectations are energy related, Wm-2 and Joules, T has to be thermodynamical relevant, meaning you have to consider that pesky zeroth law.

For Karl et al. time will determine how useful it is, then we should be into ERSSTv6beta. Or everyone could consider that for a planetary scale problem you need all the data you can lay your hands on and the combination will give you a better estimate of the real uncertainty. Picking a choosing probably isn’t the way to go.


Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by Charlie Martin

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Yes. I've wondered about this, and tried to explain this mathematical fact, one several occasions. The trick really comes down to the problem of distinguishing a certain set of observations from the null hypothesis: can we even <i>tell</i> if some proposed mechanism is having an observable effect?

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by Turbulent Eddie

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Yes – not very rational.

But that seems to be the human condition.

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by Turbulent Eddie

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And the ever present political back end makes it so.

Regardless of where in the middle you might be,
the question in the back of everyone’s mind ( the back end ) is
do we need to do something about this?
( which for governments means do we need to take money away from some groups and boss them around? )

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by Stephen Segrest

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by Richard Arrett

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Yes – people support research into renewable. I even support research into renewable.

So what?

Renewable cannot supply all our hydrocarbon energy needs (absent a game changing invention – which would be great if it happens – but you cannot count on it).

Do you support increased nuclear power?

That is also a solution for generating non-CO2 power.

Why not deploy the latest generation of passive cooled nuclear power plants and boost their share of generating energy from 20% to 50 or even 75%?

Do you support that?

By the way – the poll you linked to said less than 50% of people believe humans are causing global warming (question No. 1).

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by timg56

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I think you are just confused period.

If, according to you, there is a meaningful distinction between the two, how is it such “effects” are constantly being used as “evidence” by those who are convinced warming is a problem?

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by Richard Arrett

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Once the current appeal is over, I expect that Mann will try to dismiss his case. I don’t think it is working out for Mann as he expected.

I wonder if Steyn will agree to dismiss his counterclaims if Mann agrees to dismiss his complaint? I bet he won’t. Steyn wants to take Mann’s deposition and have him testify at court and Steyn wants a court decision.

If this gets to a court decision – Steyn will win (in my opinion).


Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by Joseph

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But the Mitchell paper and the IPCC seem to indicate that climate in general is less predictable at the century scale, not more.

Well that make sense, since we have only little over a century of good temperature data to go from and we can’t precisely model the earlier part of the twentieth century because we don’t have the measurements to do so. So, of course, there is a lot of uncertainty about what conditions were like in the last century.

Comment on Why Skeptics hate climate skeptics by aplanningengineer

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> The immediate difficulty is to characterize evidence-based knowledge about the future.

There’s the rub.

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by David Wojick

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It would not surprise me if Mann got a Nobel in physics. He has already got a heavily funded institute and published many heavily cited papers. What does surprise me is that people do not see how big all this is. Environmentalism today is as powerful as communism was 100 years ago, if not more so.

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by bobdroege

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The accuracy of an off the shelf pH meter is 0.002 pH units.
Cost about 2 grand.

The only thing a good chemist knows for sure, is what he learned last week is going to be overturned by what is on the syllabus for next week.

Comment on Why Skeptics hate climate skeptics by John Moore

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I think the Skeptics fell into a natural trap. Today’s society is so highly politicized that it is hard to keep a group focused on logic. I cited O’Sullivan’s law earlier as an example of the tendency of groups to become politicized, and to become politicized in a particular direction.

In the case of the “skeptics”, it was pretty natural to unconsciously move from science to scientism, and from the comments, that appears to have happened. One needs to think pretty carefully to maintain the difference between supporting science, and accepting scientism. Also, rational skepticism is much harder to maintain in a group than uncritical acceptance.

Much of the poplar movement towards CAGW is scientism – an uncritical acceptance of the results of a scientific establishment, as opposed to the results of the scientific method.. Scientism by itself would not lead to attacks on “deniers.” That involves the acceptance of a general political/social movement, and that’s where O’Sullivan’s law comes in. The attacks on PE in Reddit are political in nature, and have nothing to do with science.

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by Stanton Brown

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by JCH

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Which is where people got totally fooled. The pause has made complete fools of a large number of very smart people.

The PDO, when it is in phase with ENSO, is one big mother, both cold and hot.

The AMO is a pansy. I

Look at the blue AMO for June 2015. We could bust through .90C.

Look at the big blue of the PDO during the 2nd most powerful La Nina in the record versus the hot AMO that doing nothing, and look at the cause of the pause:

Same thing in 2008:


Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by Don Monfort

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Judith, can you explain why you deleted my comment, but you leave this crap?

“Glad to know I’m dealing with someone who thinks mass murder should be celebrated.”

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by David Wojick

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Stephen, I do not use the word traitor for people I disagree with, but Graham is certainly making himself a GOP outsider. He has zero chance of being nominated. It is really very simple. Inconclusive science being used to justify hugely disruptive policies creates a predictable political standoff.

By the way, about 1.5 eons ago Inhofe and I jointly (and successfully) sued the NSF to prevent the first so-called USGCRP National Assessment (or the National Scare, as I like to call it) from becoming Federal policy. Mind you the great green march barely slowed down, if at all. Happily neither has the standoff.

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by David Wojick

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Disagreement is perfectly rational, because the weight of evidence is relative to the observer.

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by curryja

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Well because i didn’t spot it. provide me with the link (in the comments or via email)

Comment on Improving climate change communication: moving beyond scientific certainty by Turbulent Eddie

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It’s not new or news that the oceans and atmosphere invoke fluctuations in circulation, heat transfers and temperatures across all time scales.

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