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Comment on Science, uncertainty and advocacy by Vaughan Pratt

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@ordvic: The consensus is a belief in AGW man made global warming.

But how would Judy’s belief in AGW be inconsistent with her advocating skepticism of that belief, or for that matter skepticism of the stronger belief that AGW is harmful?

I advocate such skepticism myself. As a professional logician I am just as opposed to “squashing” it as Judy is. But I also advocate logical reasoning, and am strongly opposed to fallacies, as I would hope Judy is.

The latter happens on both sides of the debate. For example I’m very skeptical of the recent argument that “the apparent hiatus was not an actual climate trend. Instead, it was an artifact of incomplete and biased data.”

The argument is based on the difference between the new (blue) and old (red) analyses in this plot of global surface temperature since 1880.

Over the 20 years 1995-2014 the difference is way less than the noise in that signal, so I don’t see how it can turn a hiatus into a non-hiatus in any physically meaningful way. The argument is statistically fallacious.

That the difference lies in creating the blue curve for 1995-2014 by pushing the red curve very slightly down for 1995-2004 and equally slightly up for 2005-2014 raises the obvious question, which curve is the more biased, red or blue?

The only people who are likely to find that reasoning plausible are those who find the hiatus such an embarrassment that they would love to see it squashed (or straightened out), however dubious the means.

Yet my skepticism notwithstanding, I still expect that the hiatus will soon be shown to have ended in 2010, namely by global surface temperature spiking up by between 0.3 and 0.5 °C during 2011-2021.

Yet I can also readily accept it if it stays flat. It’s only an expectation, not a belief, just as I can readily accept snake eyes (two ones in craps) even though I don’t expect it.

Beliefs are longer term than expectations. If you rely on beliefs about your fellow poker players’ hands you will not do well in the long run, but belief in the laws of probability will serve you well.

My expectations about the future are based on my beliefs about physics, which have served me well in the past and therefore I have no reason to doubt them, at least thus far.

But physics isn’t mathematics or logic, which over the centuries have proved more robust than physics and in which I therefore believe even more strongly. Aristotle’s syllogisms have stood the test of time much better than Ptolemy’s epicycles, despite both logic and physics having made great strides during the past two millennia.


Comment on Week in review – science edition by matthewrmarler

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Giant earthquakes are shaking Greenland – and scientists just figured out the disturbing reason why

Richter scale 5.2 and less are not “giant” earthquakes.

Comment on Week in review – science edition by Mike Flynn

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Steven Mosher,

Here’s what they said –

““Our results demonstrate that predictability of climate distributions under time varying forcing can be highly sensitive to the specification of initial states in ensemble simulations.””

Note the word “ensembles”. If you don’t know what it means, ask someone who does.

You might care to read the rest of the paragraph. I won’t do your reading for you, but you might note the references to “key uncertainties”, and GCMs.

Comment on Scientists speaking with one voice: panacea or pathology? by Willard

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> Both wind farms and solar farms contribute to global warming.

Anything that increases Grrrowth contributes to global warming. Anything that decreases Grrrowth contributes to global dying. Do you want to live and love or you want to die and hate?

Thank you.

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by jacksmith4tx

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The CEO of Peabody Coal hired one of Obama’s former constitutional law professors (a liberal icon to boot) to argue in behalf of the coal industry and ‘free market rules’. I hope the guy demanded cash up front because S&P just downgraded Peabody’s debt to triple C-. The equity is headed towards being de-listed at this rate. Peabody was also a major funding source for the Heartland Institute so they got to be watching the collapse of capital in the resource extraction business.

Comment on Week in review – science edition by Mike Flynn

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Steven Mosher,

You wrote –

” Or are you going to continue to assert an unlimited right to dump c02 into my air?”

The answer is of course, yes. Are you dim? I will continue exhaling CO2 as long as I possibly can. If you choose not to inhale it, just stop breathing.

You are suffering from an abject fear of the unknown. I suggest you take a teaspoon of cement, and harden up! I believe another term used here is to put on your big boy pants.

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by ulriclyons

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“All choked up: did Britain’s dirty air make me dangerously ill? Very interesting article, I was unaware of the diesel fuel issue”

“One who did understand was David Fisk, chief scientist and policy director in the departments of both the environment and transport in the 1990s. He recalls that there was “concern” in government when it was proposed that diesel be backed over petrol.”

So did my father, he was Deputy General of research for the Dept of Environment, and Director of the Road Research Laboratory before that, but had retired several years before this happened. He thought it a very unwise decision.
I have always been amazed how many people that considered themselves to be environmental aware or green, insisted on diesel powered cars. It hardly smells of roses, and we have all seen the clouds of fumes from buses and taxis.

Just previous to this, Margaret Thatcher has made large cuts to the already tiny Inspectorate of Pollution, leaving them with such a low moral that the head Brian Ponsford took his own life:
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1990-01-15a.101.3

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by Mike Flynn

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“He notes that it’s still not entirely clear why Michigan’s weatherization program didn’t save nearly as much energy as modelers had predicted — a fact he calls “unsettling.””

Just goes to show, there are “models”, “models”, and “climatology”.

Some are useful, and some are pretty much wishful thinking. The trick is being able to distinguish which is which, before you’ve wasted billions of dollars.


Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by rovingbroker

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From the Biofuels article written by Pat Adams from the Department of Energy …

Rapid advancements in biofuels science have reduced the cost per gallon from $400,000 to $6. Soon that number will be even lower, making it competitive with today’s fossil fuels.

Call back when “soon” arrives — fossil fuel prices have been falling too.

Comment on Scientists speaking with one voice: panacea or pathology? by PA

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Willard | June 27, 2015 at 7:31 pm |
> Both wind farms and solar farms contribute to global warming.

Anything that increases Grrrowth contributes to global warming. Anything that decreases Grrrowth contributes to global dying. Do you want to live and love or you want to die and hate?

Thank you.

This is a legitimate question: does renewable energy cause more direct warming than a conventional power power plant.?

A gas generator produces about 70-100 watts of heat for every 100 watts of power generated.

A coal or nuclear plant produces about 200 watts of heat for every 100 watts generated.

Whenever anyone asks a question that might undermine the AGW meme the AGWer hold their hands over their ears and go la la la la la to drown out the question. This gets a little old.

Comment on Scientists speaking with one voice: panacea or pathology? by Don Monfort

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Little unapolgetic willy is singing a Kevorkian tune.

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by Wagathon

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All the concern about pollution in modern society, for everyone who dies early from second-hand smoke, just think of the billions of dollars lost to the vaping industry from their early demise.

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by fulltimetumbleweed/tumbleweedstumbling

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Re Corn and EPA battle: This is an absolutely classic example of why government should stay out of farming. Their created an artificial demand without considering the consequences. The environmental effects on subsidizing or encouraging monoculture are the same. I have personally seen it happen in Canada with wheat. To take advantage of subsidies farmers in the 60s were cutting down shelter belts, burying rock piles and draining sloughs on very marginal land and replacing them with more wheat acreage because of pressure from regulation. And let’s not forget that it when it was a choice for choosing between the science on cutting back on fats and the sincere for cutting back on carbs (especially in the form of glucose-fructose), government policy went with cutting back fats because promoting the carbs meant corn famers would be happy. The result of THAT lunacy is our current obesity epidemic.

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by jacksmith4tx

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Mike,
I still want to know why you have decided not to have a smart meter. If your utility has deployed smart meters it’s not just a opt-out option. It cost $$ to send out a meter reader every month so it doesn’t seem rational to avoid them.

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by PA

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Well, Roving you missed the important question:

How much rainforest should we destroy and how many people should we starve to make biofuels?

The 40% US corn biofuels program contributed mightily to the middle-east unrest that started as food riots.

The major driver for rainforest destruction is sugar cane for ethanol and palm oil for biodiesel.


Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by fulltimetumbleweed/tumbleweedstumbling

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6 new things in biofuels. I see the U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY is using the same set of creative writers and statistics manipulators as NOAA. I have not heard of anyone who produce commercial levels at $6 a galloon and if they did, how is that supposed to be competitive with the cost of fossil fuels? I for one don’t want to start paying over (likely well over) $6/gallon. I don’t think I am alone in this sentiment either.

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by fulltimetumbleweed/tumbleweedstumbling

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Federal energy-efficiency efforts were likely running way over cost due to multiple levels of administration and poor biased bidding processes for the work. Contractors who are dealing with the government tend to raise prices and do a sloppier job that they would for customers they have to deal with directly because, well it’s government.

Comment on Scientists speaking with one voice: panacea or pathology? by Willard

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> Whenever anyone asks a question that might undermine the AGW meme the AGWer hold their hands over their ears and go la la la la la to drown out the question.

Asking questions is easy. Begging questions is cheap. Just Asking Questions is a RHETORICS ™ trick.

Just asking questions after getting caught begging a question is quite something.

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by jacksmith4tx

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I think it’s too late. Monsanto uses it legal monopoly in GMO grains to make sure the free market (them) have access to bushels of tax cash. Look up former Monsanto lawyer Clarence Thomas and his voting record. Lucky break for Monsanto to have friends in high places. All that aside GMO will be critical to the future of the planet so it’s important for our corporate citizens to behave ethically.

Comment on Week in review – Energy edition by fulltimetumbleweed/tumbleweedstumbling

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Comment on air pollution. As an asthmatic all kinds of things bother me but two in particular are a real problem when I am in the city and a good part of the reason I live in a rural town of 75. 1) Diesel fumes. 2) Air poisoners. I have to avoid anything with diesel fumes while out and about because they make me horribly ill. A traffic jam in a contraction zone is torture. Perfumes, aftershave, cologne, scented products in the laundry aisle, those little automatic air poisoning sprays of floral scent in public washrooms, those air-sick plug in things people insist on having in their homes, and those little solid hangy-on-the-rear-view mirror air poisoners all make me sick. I think if the world started regarding us asthmatics as proxies for the proverbial canary in the coal mine and took our misery as a sign of danger to everyone else, air pollution would be much less of an issue because people would not let it continue. The entire scent industry would also collapse. Oh well. Sulfur is out of diesel and public smoking is a thing of the past in most places. I should stop complaining.

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