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Comment on New research on atmospheric radiative transfer by hockeyschtick

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Pekka, that was a non-rebuttal consisting of lots of words filled with appeals to authority, vague & totally false claims of me inventing “new physics,” false claims about basic physics/physical chemistry/basic radiative & quantum physics, and completely devoid of any evidence, mathematics, or published references.

1. Clearly, as Stephen Wilde pointed out, you don’t understand basic meteorology, adiabatic processes, the Poisson relation, Maxwell’s gravito-thermal GHE, barometric formulae, physical chemistry, etc. Both the US & International Standard Atmospheres, and the HS greenhouse equation use these exact same mathematical relations well-known since the 1800s, and thousands of other references. These are apparently “new physics” to you, but not to science. Not one single radiative transfer equation exists in the mathematics of the US or International Standard Atmospheres, and you still continue to not answer my question why not. You instead made another absolutely false claim above that the Standard Atmosphere utilizes radiative transfer calculations. The reason is that radiation from GHGs is the effect, not the cause (gravito-thermal GHE) of the 68K temperature gradient of the troposphere from 220K to 288K. You also refuse to answer why the Std Atm states the effect of CO2 upon atmospheric temperatures 0-100km is negligible and completely discarded it from their mathematical model.

2. The one and only “new” concept added by HS to mathematics of the barometric formulae & Poisson relation is using the atmospheric center of mass concept with Newton’s Second Law of Motion F=ma=mg, which is not “new” at all and is critical in application of Newton’s 2nd Law to a system of particles (i.e. the atmospheric adiabatic processes). Unlike you, I provide references to every scientific statement I assert:

http://www.colorado.edu/physics/phys1110/phys1110_sp01/Notes/Chap10.htm

3. You continue to ignore very inconvenient questions such as if my mathematics/physics are “new” or “totally wrong,” how is it possible the HS greenhouse eqn perfectly replicates the US Std Atm, the temperature profiles of Earth, Triton, and overlapping parts with Venus. You apparently believe this is just one huge, amazing, incredible coincidence despite the step-by-step mathematical proof and output that matches the US Std Atmosphere, and observations.

You also apparently believe it’s just one huge, amazing, incredible coincidence that the ERL, center of mass, and equilibrium temperature with the Sun all happen to be at the exact same geopotential altitude of ~5.5km, on both Earth and Triton, and close with a small tweaking factor of on 1.17 on Venus.

4. For the 3rd or 4th time, the absolute maximum possible emitting temperature of a 15 micron line-emitter is 193K by Wein’s Law, which is derived from Planck’s Law for blackbodies. I’ve asked you several times for a published reference that a line-emitter’s emitting temperature can ever under any circumstance exceed that of a true blackbody at the same wavelength, and you have repeatedly failed to do so. I wonder why you just want me to take that falsehood on your authority.

You also apparently don’t understand that a maximum emitting temperature of 193K (CO2) can only transfer HEAT to bodies colder than 193K (2nd LoT), falsely claiming if you have a lot more CO2 & 193K line-emitters, that will transfer more HEAT to bodies warmer than 193K. Absolutely false! The HEAT transferred by a 193K emitter to a body warmer than 193K is ZERO, whether we are talking about one molecule of CO2 or one million molecules of CO2 all emitting at 193K.

I’ve also pointed out 3 or 4 times above that climate scientists falsely assume CO2 is a true blackbody for which SB & Planck’s Law apply, and constantly & incorrectly use SB Law for GHG calculations, even though CO2 is far from a true blackbody and emits LESS ENERGY E=hv than a BB at 193K. Not only is CO2 not a BB, it behaves the opposite of a BB in that emissivity decreases with increasing temperature, OPPOSITE to a TRUE BB:

Sad you don’t understand basic radiative, atmospheric, chemical, and quantum physics, and that YOU are the one inventing “new physics.”

Please provide published references, mathematics, & observational evidence to back up your claims, as I have done.


Comment on Pre-traumatic stress syndrome: climate scientists speak out by popesclimatetheory

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They climate people do not have a disorder because of the forecasts.

They make bad forecasts because they have the disorder.

They look at their own model output, see that it does not match real data and that does drive them mad. The data does not match their alarmist forecasts and that is the travesty.

Comment on Pre-traumatic stress syndrome: climate scientists speak out by popesclimatetheory

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Real data does not support the alarmism that keeps the paychecks rolling in. I do understand that could drive an alarmist mad.

Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by PA

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The earth intercepts over 174 terawatts of solar energy. That is just the earth disk area * insolation and doesn’t include additional energy absorbed by the atmosphere (which increases the area of interception).

Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by micro6500

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” Well, the Earth would then find itself wondering what to do about the extra 122 TW of thermal energy that it was unable to shed.”
What ever the amount is, it is getting radiated away most all of the 24 hours each day.

Comment on Pre-traumatic stress syndrome: climate scientists speak out by popesclimatetheory

Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by Vaughan Pratt

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@MF: It’s not an argument. It’s fact.

1 + 1 = 0. It’s not an argument. It’s fact.

(What, you weren’t working in GF(2)? Why not? The world is digital now in case you hadn’t noticed.)

Comment on Pre-traumatic stress syndrome: climate scientists speak out by Mike Flynn

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Poor poor darlings! Depressed about the prospect of having to get a real job?

Noticing a decrease in adulation recently? Collection plate a bit empty, is it?

Here’s a suggestion or three –

If you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue.
Take a teaspoon of cement and harden up.

There’s always psychiatric help available, although you might want to use a trained psychologist in the first instance. Some of them have odd ideas though. It might be worth while avoiding those who inhabit a fantasy world themselves, and believe in conspiracies of Big Anything, Skeptics, or people trying to steal their Nobel Prizes!

You can stop sobbing now. Mother Nature will make it better, diddums. Bye bye!


Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by Vaughan Pratt

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@MF: If this were not so, winter would not be colder than summer,

Rubbish. Last winter I took a trip to Australia and asked people how it compared to six months ago and they assured me it was definitely hotter now than then.

When are you going to change your parochial pre-Galilean views of how the Sun heats the Earth? Your claim to “the facts” is undermined by your apparent belief in a flat Earth which the Sun deigns to warm every 12 hours out of 24, with radiation to space happening only at night.

Comment on Pre-traumatic stress syndrome: climate scientists speak out by mosomoso

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Sly careerists modelling their Bambi-stares, prissily trimmed face hair and North Face jackets for smutty, snobby old Esquire. Just what was needed in this jaded world.

Nice to read that Gavin is not totally down with Jason’s “baked into the system” seventy-foot rise in sea levels. I mean, if we’re already ###### then there’s no incentive to build those white elephants, is there? (Of course, cutting edge Esquire actually prints the word, unlike fuddy-duddy old me.)

Now men, if the “swirl of emotions” and “darker possibilities on the curve’s tail” get too much, you can just pop over to the Style pages of Hearst’s bible for first world male consumers. Check out the 5 top sneakers for 2015. And don’t miss the 15 Best Summer Colognes to Keep You Fresh Well into Fall.

Then it’s back, revived, to the “science” pages for some more global catastrophe or third world suffering.

Comment on Pre-traumatic stress syndrome: climate scientists speak out by PA

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Schmidt did sound pretty reasonable.

I’m sort of ok with Schmidt’s position.

There is an arguable position that we want to limit emissions to 10-12 GT/Y. Given that China is dialing back that is eminently doable.

At 10-12 GT/Y we can burn fossil fuel until the cows come home. The current 6 GT of environment absorption will rise to equal emissions, The CO2 level will flatten below 500 PPM, and everyone is happy.

Even the 3 times too high IPCC numbers say that forcing will cause less than 1°C of further warming if we stay below 500 PPM. By the end of the century we will be out of fossil fuel anyway so this whole issue becomes a don’t care.

Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by Mike Flynn

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Vaughan Pratt,

In spite of all your wishes, the Earth has been cooling for four and a half billion years. Any point on Earth will be warmer when it is closer to the Sun, a consequence of the Earths elliptical orbit. Owing to the inclination of the Earth’s axis, and a good few other things, seasons come and go.

If you truly believe you can prevent the Earth cooling, nobody will try and stop you. You can’t even prevent a hot potato cooling by putting it in the Sun. Try it. Surround it with CO2, make a nice little sunshade for it, wrap it in a blanket.

Sorry about that, but if heat could be “stored” or “accumulated”, you wouldn’t to able to detect it, would you? Where do you think the energy comes from to affect your thermometer?

Unfortunately for you, slowing the rate of cooling does not cause the hot potato to heat up, or the hot beverage you put in your vacuum flask to come to the boil. Not even after four and a half billion years, by the look of things.

No wonder “climate scientists” are feeling depressed!

Comment on Pre-traumatic stress syndrome: climate scientists speak out by PA

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There are some people that learn from their failures.

The people who believe in CO2 climate catastrophe aren’t among them.

Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by Vaughan Pratt

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Could lead to ‘Maunder minimum’ effect that saw River Thames freeze over

Wow, scary. Good thing we had the foresight to stick all that extra CO2 into the atmosphere.

Oops, sorry, forgot I was on CE for a moment. Greenhouse gases can’t act as a thermal insulator, mea culpa.

Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by Vaughan Pratt

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In spite of all your wishes, the Earth has been cooling for four and a half billion years.

Mike, when are you going to learn to start your posts with something less ridiculous than that? Your suggestion that I wished otherwise was so absurd that I gave up in despair of your ever saying anything remotely sensible and didn’t read any further.


Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by maksimovich1

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1.6 wm6^2 or greater would be troublesome if persistent.

Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by stevenreincarnated

Comment on Pre-traumatic stress syndrome: climate scientists speak out by Streetcred

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Quite so RiHoo8 … maybe they’re experiencing severe cognitive dissonance with what they espouse as scientists and the fact as presented to them daily by Nature. They’re so heavily invested in their own BS that they see no way out other than to blame those that don’t accept their folly … the fragile egos are under threat of their life’s work and financial security being washed away by the truth. Shame for them.

Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by PA

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Well, no.

It isn’t the heat production but the conversion of wild areas to asphalt/buildings/dirt..

Green areas lose heat by evaporation. Manmade areas lose heat by heating the air (conduction/convection).

It is manmade warming because all the man altered areas warm the air.

Comment on Which climate change papers ‘matter’? by Vaughan Pratt

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(Well, ok, If I’m the moth, Flynn is the flame, in more senses than one.)

MF: If you truly believe you can prevent the Earth cooling,

Thank you for that thought, Mike. (Excuse me while I guffaw.)

But I take it you truly believe no one anywhere in the solar system can prevent Venus cooling. Have you checked that belief with anyone you’re on good terms with? Did they smile approvingly, guffaw, or what?

Currently the surface of Venus is at around 740 K.

Which is rather shocking given that the amount of heat from the Sun reaching Venus’s surface is around 25 W/m2, as against around 1000 W/m2 of heat from the Sun reaching Earth’s surface, which at about 288 K on average is well below 740 K.

With that high a surface temperature on Venus with lhat little heat input, say again what you said about preventing a planet cooling.

@MF: It’s not an argument. It’s fact..

When A presents P as a fact, B notes not that P is a fact but merely that A believes P. Whether A ever gets to understand B depends on whether A ever gets to understand anyone’s thought processes but their own.

Con men make a great living off this principle.

Sorry, did I confuse you just then?

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