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Comment on Climate Change, Epistemic Trust, and Expert Trustworthiness by PA

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It is interesting that the “Consensus” surveys don’t ask the question outright:
Do you believe CO2 will cause catastrophic global warming?

The IPCC doesn’t seem to believe there will be net harm until 3°C.

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/ex-ipcc-head-prepare-for-5c-warmer-world-15610
Watson said there is a 50-50 chance of preventing global average temperatures rising more than 3°C above their level at the start of the industrial age, but a 5°C rise is possible.

Catastrophe means more than a little net harm so let’s define “Catastrophe” as 5°C. An outright global warmer only believes “catastrophic global warming ” is “possible”.

http://archive.is/9gXOX
https://uknowispeaksense.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/dodgy-survey/

“CO2 will cause catastrophic global warming?”
The Scottish engineering survey was interesting for several reasons.
1. Global Warmers are dishonest and lack integrity (see global warmer response from uknowispeaknonsense.)

2. The “2%” catastrophic response wouldn’t be possible even on a skeptic forum if the “consensus” claims were correct.

3. The 2% is a little low but not as far off as the consensus claim.

Now there is a lot of confusion about what temperatures are used as a baseline and global warmers like to make historic temperatures a moving target because they are not honest and lack integrity. So lets eliminate that and define “catastrophe” as 4°C over current temperatures and “negative” warming as over 2°C above current temperatures.

If someone actually believes the consensus they should survey atmospheric scientists and ask yes/no responses to 4 statements:
1. CO2 will cause 2100 to be 4°C or more warmer than today (2015).
2. CO2 will cause 2100 to be 2°C or more warmer than today (2015).
3. CO2 will cause catastrophic global warming by 2100.
4. CO2 will cause catastrophic global warming.

I don’t expect an honest survey asking the actual questions to ever be made by global warmers. The results would be interesting.


Comment on Climate Change, Epistemic Trust, and Expert Trustworthiness by blunderbunny

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Yep, that sort sums me up too. Clouds and just for Added emphasis CLOUDS, we shouldn’t really need to mention anything else to the Team of indeed the IPCC… Well we could tease them a little with particulates, but clouds are catchier and nicer to look at. Then, as you say there the gate keeping, poor methods, splicing of data sets etc etc. Sadly, the list is almost endless :-(

Comment on The conceits of consensus by jim2

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I don’t know about Angels, but Unicorns love to dance on the head of a needle, a pin even.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by Michael Cunningham

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Danley, in a democracy the “general population” will often determine what policies are proposed and accepted, however ignorant they might be, polling will influence policymakers. It will also influence those who have strong views on the matter (whether or nor well-informed) in the intensity of their efforts to make a particular case. Politicians and the media will always be interested in people’s views, and how to influence them. The basis for those views is secondary.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by Don Monfort

Comment on The conceits of consensus by curryja

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You would be surprised. Prior to 2009, i had only read a handful of the primary papers on attribution and had not even read the IPCC section very carefully. Nevertheless, I had formed an opinion based on what I had read and I what I heard discussed by the ‘community’. I suspect many people with a strong opinion on this haven’t even done as much as I had prior to 2009. Climategate motivated me to take a much deeper look into this issue, as well as being involved in some primary research on this topic.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by Brandon S? (@Corpus_no_Logos)

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I'm curious just what was included in this version of Richard Tol's paper. It's paywalled, so I don't know what all it says, but I remember reading earlier versions of the paper. They were beyond terrible. His first draft was posted and discussed over on The Blackboard, and I discussed it there starting with <a href="http://rankexploits.com/musings/2013/richard-tol-draft-comment-on-skscook-survey-paper/#comment-114663" rel="nofollow">this comment</a>. What followed was a very lengthy exchange where I was almost the only person willing to acknowledge Tol had made a glaringly obvious and incredibly stupid mistake, one where he based a central criticism of the Cook et al paper on the idea they had presented their ratings in a random order. Only, they hadn't. They had presented them by abstract year and alphabetical order (within the year), which was certainly not random. Tol eventually wound up dropping the argument from his paper, I think in his fourth or fifth draft. He never admitted it was wrong though. In fact, he <a href="http://www.hi-izuru.org/wp_blog/2014/01/richard-tols-peculiar-argument/" rel="nofollow">kept defending</a> it even after dropping it from his paper, making one wonder why he would drop it from his paper. Whatever his reason, it appears that to this day, Tol still believes sorting abstracts by the year they were published <a href="http://www.hi-izuru.org/wp_blog/2014/02/richard-tols-peculiar-argument-revisited/" rel="nofollow">gives you them in a random order</a>. It's mind-boggling, especially in that almost nobody calls him out on how ridiculous an idea that is. I think I've only seen two people other than myself acknowledge his argument on that point is wrong, Personally, I don't have high expectations for the paper. I would say Cook et al's paper is utter garbage, but I have no problem acknowledging most of the "refutations" and "rebuttals" to it have been pretty bad too.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by Don Monfort

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You are spamming, hockeypuck. Please stop depositing your Skydragon doo-doo all over this here blog. It stanks.


Comment on The conceits of consensus by PA

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Well, it is odd that there is no equatorial hot spot and the satellite record is flat.

That would suggest that the effect is localized to the surface, or is self correcting higher in the atmosphere, or the surface record adjustments are really that bad.

Comment on JC’s conscience by micro6500

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” infilling Def
Material that fills or is used to fill a space or hole”
” If you’re using them differently, then I have no idea what the complaint might be about. Interpolating between measurements is a perfectly normal thing to do.”
If they were infilling between points on a linear line, that wouldn’t be a big deal, but the temperature field (actual temperatures, not what BEST uses) is not linear over relatively short distances, nothing like the 1000km distances BEST uses.
Now being climate science, infilling could mean anything to them.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.3

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PA, “Well, it is odd that there is no equatorial hot spot and the satellite record is flat.

That would suggest that the effect is localized to the surface, or is self correcting higher in the atmosphere, or the surface record adjustments are really that bad.”

Well, it most likely suggests that warming is less than expected and convection/advection increases are greater than expected. Darn dynamics.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by maksimovich1

Comment on The conceits of consensus by Don Monfort

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I defended you, brandoon. So why you mad at me?

Comment on JC’s conscience by Danny Thomas

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Brandon,
My use of the term “infilling” was the more generic:

“material that fills or is used to fill a space or hole.
verb

with no implication intended of anything untoward. The hope was to suggest a base format vs. an ever expanding/altered/changing format. Commenting once again that it’s the trends which are important.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by Danny Thomas

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JCH,
From your view, what “version of climate skepticism” is relevant?


Comment on The conceits of consensus by omanuel

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The conceit of consensus replaced the humility of honesty in awarding funds for research after WWII. The inevitable consequences: the Climategate emails that surfaced in late November 2009.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by Danny Thomas

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Michael,
Gotta give ya credit:”I love the smell of tribalism in the morning.” for at least recognizing it’s tribalism all around.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by hockeyschtick

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Don, you have no clue how the Maxwell/ Clausius/ Carnot/ Boltzmann/ Feynman/ US Std Atmosphere gravito-thermal greenhouse effect differs from the “Skydragon book,” and saying so just shows your complete ignorance of the basic physics, just like your silly claim that photons behave the same as steel balls. Pathetic.

I will not stop defending the work of these great physicists and the 100’s of atmospheric physicists, meteorologists, physical chemists, etc. who produced the US Standard Atmosphere and International Standard Atmospheres no matter how many asinine comments you post Don.

Comment on The conceits of consensus by PA

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This familiar false argument. There are 13950 articles that mention global warming. There are 24 articles that reject global warming.

Gee, how did we arrive at that? “By my definition, 24 of the 13,950 articles, 0.17% or 1 in 581, clearly reject global warming or endorse a cause other than CO2 emissions for observed warming.”

1. His definition.
2. Explicit rejection of global warming.
3. Lack of explicit rejection is acceptance.

Lets correct some things.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v519/n7543/full/nature14240.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20150319
1. Fco2 = 3.46 ln (C/C0), 22 PPM = 0.2 W/m2 measured over a decade. This is 1/3 the IPCC TSR which is basically Ftsr = 2 * 5.35 ln (C/C0).

https://www.sussex.ac.uk/webteam/gateway/file.php?name=wps-69-2014.pdf&site=24
“In all four cases, the expected impacts cross zero somewhere between 1°C and 2°C of global warming – suggesting net positive impacts for milder warming for AR2 and AR3, and showing such for AR4 and AR5. Impacts get progressively more negative for greater warming, but only become statistically significantly different from zero somewhere between 3°C and 4°C.”
2. The question is catastrophic global warming – not just some warming. Some warming is beneficial. The temperature has to get over 4°C before we are sure it is even going to be harmful. That still isn’t catastrophic – just net harmful. After all if the catastrophe from global warming isn’t “statistically significantly different from zero” the only people who are going to care are the scientists.

To be really fair the Desmog or his designate would have to:
1. Pick someone objective to do the analysis.
2. Only pick papers that use the honest 22 PPM = 0.2 W/m2 CO2 forcing.
3. Only pick papers that, “Clearly endorse that anthropogenic CO2 emissions will cause warming of 4°C or more”.

Most papers use fraudulent forcing since without fraudulent forcing there isn’t an issue. Using a fair standard there might not be any papers that support CAGW.

Comment on JC’s conscience by mwgrant

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Ken Denison | August 27, 2015 at 10:26 am | This is just an IMO. 1.) <i>It seems to me that all make, at some level, the assumption that we can “correct” or “fill in” a temperature value in location A using “good” data from surrounding stations. Am I correct in this?</i> Here you are referring to interpolation. 2.) <i>If #1 is true, then what has been done to characterize the expected variation of temperature over space to know what granularity of spatial sampling is need to make #1 a decent assumption?</i> That is open and of course depends on the application in mind. Here I assume that you mean estimating a metric, e.g., ’average global temperature’. If it were me I would work backwards: first I would determine the error I could tolerate in the estimated metric and then determine coverage* based on that, characterization of the existing data, and proposed methodology. But that is still a very, very simple picture and this is simply a blog comment. ——— * I prefer ‘coverage’ to ‘granularity’. 3.) <i>How does the granularity in #2 match with what is actually available?</i> It probably has not been determined or considered but that view reflects bias of someone living outside the paywalls and only a modicum of interest. 4.) <i>How does the difference in #3 affect the statical significance of what is reported as the “global mean temperature”.</i> Here the <b><i>significance should be set prior to sample collection/observation and analysis</i></b>. It is integral to the QA plan (novel idea). In a perfect world you set your standards (and goals) before you lift your pinkie. I like the questions because they they re-enforce the idea of getting to some things that should be addressed up-front in climate and other environmental projects. (Again just IMO)
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