Okay, Steven, I usually use a more qualified term, such as “We are very poor at predicting the future.” Yes, we can predict that the sun can rise, etc. But throughout history, any attempt to look 90-100 years ahead has been widely different from the outcomes because of unforeseen technological, political, economic and other changes. I’ve tended to make this argument in the context of projections of where GHG emissions will leave us at the end of this century. More immediately, in the life of alleged CAGW, we have had many unforeseens, such as 9/11, the GFC, ISIS, China’s transformation, Putin’s belligerency, the growth of food output relative to population and many advances in IT and communications.
Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Faustino aka Genghis Cunn
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Faustino aka Genghis Cunn
Steven, my moderate reply is in moderation.
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Beta Blocker
richard verney: “One should be very wary as to how this game may unfold.”
One argument which could be made for passing a legislated carbon tax — or alternatively for imposing a framework of carbon pollution fines which is the functional equivalent of a legislated tax on carbon — is that the monies so collected could be viewed both as compensatory damages for past harm inflicted and as punitive damages which discourage future harmful behavior; i,e,, to discourage the production of ever-greater volumes of carbon fuel for public consumption.
Any oil company worth its salt should be analyzing the possible upside of a government decision to impose a tax on carbon.
If the price of all carbon fuels rises substantially with the imposition of a stiff tax on carbon, with the result that the retail price at the consumer level is doubled or even tripled, could an oil company hide a comparatively larger per-gallon revenue figure inside of its wholesale price while simultaneously adjusting its operations so that it receives a higher overall rate of return on a lower volume of carbon fuels sold?
Is it possible the big oil companies might actually welcome a government decision to put a stiff price on carbon, assuming that the carbon taxation framework — or the framework of carbon pollution fines which is the functional equivalent of a legislated carbon tax — was structured in such a way as to guarantee a higher margin of profit on each gallon of carbon fuel sold?
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by beththeserf
Fooling people? In 2001 NASA showed just under
0.06 C warming from 1880 to 1999. Now for same
interval 1.2C. Voila, global warming theory validated!
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by beththeserf
Meant ter say,’just under’ 1.2C.
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Jim D
I am realist when it comes to politics. The Republicans are listening to those with the money rather than with the science. If there is no money in the science, it is of no interest to them. It is just the way they work.
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Don Monfort
You ain’t a realist, yimmy. You a captive of huffpo BS.
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Comment on Hiatus controversy: show me the data by agnostic2015
Jim, for goodness sake! There is no way to slice it. We aren’t worried about what the temperature was in 2007. We want to know what it’s going to be like in the future! That’s what all the hand wringing is about. You show a cherry picked period in order to claim that other 15 year periods can be equally cherry picked, but they are not!
What we are interested in is what temperatures are doing now. So by your reasoning if the trend was 0.3 C per decade between 1993/4 and 2006/7 the most recent 15 year period is virtually 0.0 C per decade, then that means the trend has declined!
Hooray! Global Warming is over!
What you need to show is that CO2 increase and temperature correlate over the period in which the greatest contribution to GHG’s was made by man – over the modern period, and that the temperature was increasing by around 0.3 per decade over the whole recent period we were contributing significantly to atmosCO2.
The whole reason we are all here beating ourselves up about all of this is because that patently didn’t happen. Making the point that you could find a period with a 0.3 C per decade rise does not help or support your case.
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Comment on Hiatus controversy: show me the data by agnostic2015
Oh, and I should add, it would be helpful if you could show that temp trends have been INCREASING to correlate with our increasing output of GHG’s. That would be strongly supportive of AGW.
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Joseph
What are you talking about, Don? When I say fund I mean give them money, not that they were there entire source.of funding. But again what are you trying to say?
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Comment on Hiatus controversy: show me the data by Jim D
It shows that the 15 year trend is all over the place. In another few years it could just as easily be back to 0.3C per decade where it was as recently as 2007, and I guarantee that the Republicans will have lost interest in it by then. Just looking at its variation over history tells you that pauses are as ephemeral as the political attention span. The 30-year trend is much more stable and has not wavered since 1980 because all the steps and pauses cancel each other in the big picture. There was some wisdom in defining climate as being from 30 years upwards, and it is similar with climate trends.
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Comment on Hiatus controversy: show me the data by Jim D
agnostic, this should be the plot you wanted that is supportive of AGW. It doesn’t get any more obvious than this.
http://woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp/from:1950/mean:12/plot/esrl-co2/scale:0.01/offset:-3.25
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Joseph
Ok I see. Why should we limit ourselves to the the last ten years, Don? I think the investigation is going to look at past activities. Now, why don’t explain you explain to me why they funded an organization like Heartland, whose reputation comes from fighting the tobacco wars.
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Knute
Yes, not only possible but likely.
It’s all rather diabolical.
Thought scenario
You make up something bad that forces me to pay you a penalty. Since what I have is bad, but still needed the price goes up. I pass that cost on to the buyer. The pay because they need it. They go look for a substitute, it becomes cost prohibitive, illegal, or better yet controlled by you.
You spend the money on Birken bags at 15K a pop for a cheap one.
You feel good because you are trickling down and your new happiness emerges.
I still pay.
Paying for your sins back in the Middle Ages used to work this way.
Disclaimer … I used liberal use of “you” and “me”, but obviously didnt mean YOU or ME.
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Joseph
<blockquote>Heartland doesn’t appear to be factually incorrect and drawing a clearer picture of global warmers is a service to the public.</blockquote>
hmm wowl Are you some kind of skeptical ai program on the fritz,because,I am having trouble following your logic
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Knute
opensource.org
fabulous fun connecting the revolving doors and money.
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Joseph
Is it only when they disagree with your position that they must be dishonest?
I think there is number of reasons to question Exxon’s position on climate change and an investigation will reveal whether they were trying to mislead or not. I am not saying that they did mislead, but their behavior has been suspicious to say the least.
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Knute
pretty sure I can still play hockey with either one
:::: sorry, couldn’t resist ::::
maybe the pope will offer me a couple of choices for penance
1. spanking with a barbed wire in the shape of a hockey stick
2. cash
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by Mark Silbert
Joseph,
Your behavior and opinions are suspicious to me. I say let’s investigate you!
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Comment on Accountability for Climate Change Damages: Is Fossil Fuel Like Tobacco? by PA
Joseph | November 9, 2015 at 11:51 am | Reply
climate scam.. extremists
I hope you aren’t implying there is some sort of vast conspiracy to fool people.
Well, no – but there is something almost as bad: a lot of people with limited integrity and a twisted world view.
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