Quantcast
Channel: Comments for Climate Etc.
Viewing all 148656 articles
Browse latest View live

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by Steven Mosher

$
0
0

“Screw the journals, they are turning more and more irrelevant.
You’ve got all the fame and acclaim you can hope for”

Yup.

If evan has an analysis that holds up the journals dont matter.

Sure in the short term journals matter for POLITICS, but for the pure
truth of the matter journals dont matter.

Look, Evan has a hypthosis about these stations.. 10 years from now
when the globe is .15C warmer.. His result will be undeniable!!

And then no one will care where it was published… it will in fact be an further indictment of “journal science”

If it’s true, no one will care where it is published


Comment on What is there a 97% consensus about? by Peter Lang

$
0
0

PA said:

What is the consensus [from the original paper].
1. It is getting warmer
2. People are helping make it warmer.

I think it is getting warmer. I’m pretty sure people are helping make it warmer.

… More warming has been historically good. The forcing from CO2 measured empirically is less than claimed by the IPCC. The level of CO2 increase predicted by the IPCC is far too high.

I agree with all that.

However, I believe the uncertainties about how much contribution humans have made to warming is huge, and they haven’t reduced much in 30 years of enormously funded research.

I think the uncertainties in how much net-damage or net-benefit GHG emissions are causing or will cause may be an order of magnitude or more greater than the uncertainty about the projections of future average global temperature changes.

I don’t know if GHG emissions are doing more harm or more good. We only hear about the projected harm. We hear little about the benefits, including the reduction in the risk reduction of the next abrupt cooling event – which is due any time now because we are past the peak of the current interglacial and on the bumpy downhill run to the next glacial maximum, some 80,000 years ahead.

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by Steven Mosher

$
0
0

“Behind this perverse comment lies Mosh’s perverse belief that “skeptics” of any hypothesis have a duty to provide a successful counter-hypothesis. To do so, he supposes, they must employ some kind of temperature record. Said record will have flaws, so the skeptic’s hypothesis will be no better than the one he is challenging.

One day he’ll grasp the concept of disconfirmation, but until then…”

1. There is no intellectual requirement to produce a counter theory.
2. Pragmatically speaking, you lose if you dont.
3, the end goal is to produce a better explanation. Mere criticism,
loses.

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by PA

$
0
0

1. There is no intellectual requirement to produce a counter theory.

Fine. This is the second coming of the MWP. Barley was easy to grow during the MWP on Greenland and the sea level was 6 inches higher.

When we get to where indisputably the current time is warmer than the MWP, the sea level is just as high, and Greenland is having bounteous barley harvests we can revisit the “humans make it warmer” theory. Until then there isn’t even a potential problem to address.

Comment on What is there a 97% consensus about? by PA

$
0
0

I don’t know if GHG emissions are doing more harm or more good. We only hear about the projected harm. We hear little about the benefits,

The temperature annually varies by over 2°C. On years with average precipitation demonstrate crop failure due to temperatures being 2°C more than normal. It isn’t hard. The US was on average 1.57°C warmer in 2012 and we had record or near record harvests.

Show that being 2°C above average (which is actually a high 1.33°C above average because GHG is 2/3rds at night). harms crops and reduces yield. Not a big request.

The number kicked around for benefit is 60% more growth since 1900. The 11% more growth CSIRO study from 1982-2010 is confirming the obvious. Their models only predicted 5% more growth,.a 120% error.

Why are global warmist doctrine/models off by 100% or more?. Perhaps they are numerically challenged.

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by Mike Flynn

$
0
0

PA,

Bugger Greenland. I’m waiting for Antarctica to become ice free and fertile again, as it was. Maybe the permafrost in the North will unfreeze, and large grazing animals will repopulate the areas.

The Golden Age awaits! More CO2 is what we need – for plant food, of course – it’s not worth a cracker for warming anything!

Wotcha reckon?

Cheers.

Comment on Climate models versus climate reality by Science or Fiction

$
0
0

I think the quote stands for it self.

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by PA

$
0
0

Bugger Greenland.

Too large a target for me – I will leave that in other people’s capable hands.

On other subjects. Now that I look at the leap second adjustments I’m honestly worried we are slipping back into the ice age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

I’m not even sure renewable energy level subsidies for fossil fuels (25+ times current levels of fossil fuel subsides) can keep us out of an ice age. But 5 times higher fossil fuel subsidies are easily justified, and we can cut renewable subsidies by 80-90 % to bring them to parity (5 up x 5 down = 25).

Just the additional food it will bring us and the potential to stave off future starvation would more than justify the higher fossil fuel subsidies. Averting an ice age would just be a lucky fringe benefit..

I am concerned that global warmers deliberately want to starve people and bring on an ice age. I’m not sure what their disturbed and twisted reasoning is, just that it is disturbed and twisted.


Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by Steven Mosher

$
0
0

PA.

Skeptics lost. even with republican “deniers” running the show
we ended up with billions of subsidies for renewable energy that
“solves” a problem that you guys argue doesnt exist.

that is pretty funny.

Comment on What is there a 97% consensus about? by Marlo Lewis

Comment on What is there a 97% consensus about? by Peter Lang

$
0
0

PA,

Thanks for you reply. I am not sure I properly understand what you are saying with your somewhat abbreviated sentences. I also wonder if your example for a single year of US grain harvest is of much value. We also know that crops and agriculture practices adapt relatively quickly to climate changes.

I like to try to understand the outer limits, then narrow down. If there is evidence of sudden breaks in the trend between the outer limits I’d like to understand the reason for them.

So, I begin at one end, the ice-age temperatures. We know that life struggled when the temperatures were colder. Much of the planet was dry, barren land. Vegetation productivity was way down. We are very much better off now. We are much better off now than even the Little Ice Age.

At the hot end of the scale – Jurassic, Cretaceous, Tertiary – life thrived.

So the overall trend from cold to hot is established – life thrives when the planet is warmer and struggles when colder. Life does better as the planet warms.

We also know, at temperatures close to current, vegetation productivity is improving as the planet has warmed 1C over the past 200 years or so and as CO2 concentrations have increased.

It seems to me, the overall trend suggests warming planet and increasing CO2 concentrations are more good than bad.I don’t see p[ersuasive evidence suggesting it is likely we will reach a temperature where the trend reverses while we remain in the current coldhouse phase – and that won’t stop until tectonic plate movements separate N and S America.

It seems to me there is less risk from warming than there is from cooling and our GHG emissions are, to some extent, mitigating the the risk of cooling – i.e. delaying the next abrupt cooling event and reducing the magnitude and rate of change.

Unfortunately, I am no aware of much research being done to properly evaluate all the probabilities and consequences of both possibilities, warming or cooling.

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by RichardLH

$
0
0

“How much extra ocean surface area results from a mm rise? Shouldn’t the earth spin faster with a larger, smoother area provided by water and not slower?”

It is not surface you probably need to think about. As you mentioned, fast = cold, slow = warm.

Mass transfer between the Poles and the Equator will have that effect.

As to your ‘smoother surface’ thought, what do you think is the source of the friction and how does it dissipate the energy?

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by David Springer

$
0
0

Only a warmist trying to save face would say “skeptics lost”. We won and won big. The 2016 budget includes a 5-year extension and gradual phase out for tax credits for wind and solar. Republicans voted for that in trade for Democrats allowing an immediate end to a 40-year ban on crude oil exports.

Warmists want TRILLIONS, Mosher. Instead they got some measly tax credits on wind and solar plus a glut of US crude oil on the world market that will keep supply up, price down near $35/bbl and work to foil any OPEC plans to run crude price back up to $75/bbl+.

How that can be spun into a loss for skeptics is beyond me. I’d have voted for it in a heartbeat. I’d have voted for it without lifting the ban on US crude oil exports. That’s because wind and solar have a place in the grand scheme of things. Not a huge place but a place nonetheless. Fossil fuels won’t last forever. I couldn’t care less about CO2 emission or global warming. I care about running out of finite natural resources which necessarily includes fossil fuel.

Write that down.

Comment on Climate models versus climate reality by Peter Davies

$
0
0

Although average temperatures vary quite a bit within very small regions, the anomalies in average temperature (change over time) is very highly correlated over large distances often exceeding 1000 km. For that reason you do not need many observation points to provide good estimates of the global temperature anomaly. You need both land and sea records however.

Cowtan and Way’s contribution is purely to fill in the missing grid points in various temperature data sets. They offer either a kriging version (which GISS uses anyway), or a version based on the use of satellite snapshots (which does not use the satellite trends or anomalies, but purely the temperature around a large region at one instant in time).

Quite a few of the missing points Cowtan and Way fill in are around the Arctic and Antarctic, which have warmed faster than other regions. This is why their Global trends are higher than HadCRUT4 for instance. Cowan and Way do not alter existing data in the surface data set if it is provided for a particular grid point – only estimating missing grid points.

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by David Springer

$
0
0

If TOBS change sometimes requires no adjustment then the theory behind TOBS having a warming effect is bullschit.

That’s probably part of the reason why stations without perturbations show a drastically different trend. Keep talking Mosher. You dig your hole deeper with every word.


Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by David Springer

Comment on Busting (or not) the mid-20th century global-warming hiatus by RichardLH

$
0
0

For Jesus, you need to be a believer, not a sceptic. For science you need to be impartial.

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by David Springer

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by RichardLH

$
0
0

It was also from the days where a record was mainly compared to itself. It was not extrapolated/interpolated to try and estimate the temperature field which the ground (and balloon) thermometers are point samples of.

Volume sampling (aka satellite) have different ‘rules’ but do not suffer from the infilling problem that ground stations have. They have all the data (or as much as we can currently capture). The problem is making sure that the data is aligned to temperature correctly, which the balloon set seems to show is true.

Comment on Watts et al.: Temperature station siting matters by David Springer

$
0
0

@ehak (Kyle Hilburn?)

The heat sink hypothesis is obviously wrong. UHI is largely accomplished by land use change that results in less evaporative cooling. Paved areas replace grass and trees which work to pull subsurface moisture out of the ground and evaporate it through stomata during the gas exchange that occurs during photosynthesis. Urban environments collect stormwater in street gutters then shuttle it underground into drainage systems which empty into rivers. All that serves to drastically reduce the time and surface area available for evaporative cooling. A secondary means of UHI generation is waste heat emitted to the environment. Every automobile, every structure’s heating and cooling system, every light bulb and computer, and anything else that consumes energy generates waste heat that is vented into the local environment.

Heat sinks will only serve to lessen day/night temperature difference they won’t change a trend.

Despite Evan’s heat sink hypothesis being wrong that does not change the observation that pristine, unperturbed Class 1 and 2 stations requiring no adjustment other than a very minor MMTS adjustment where indicated in metadata display a drastically lower warming trend than adjusted stations. The obvious, inescapable conclusion is that the adjustments overall add a false warming trend.

Viewing all 148656 articles
Browse latest View live




Latest Images