Comment on Post Normal Science: Deadlines by Beth Cooper

August 5, 2012, 3:33 am

≫ Next: Comment on Post Normal Science: Deadlines by Peter317

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by captdallas2 0.8 +0.2 or -0.4

$

0

0

Bart on environmentalism.

A few thoughts about ‘environmentalism, Bart, as a planter of trees, myself, and as a proponent ot the open society: )

Western industrial societies have a history of improving the lives and living conditions of their people, improving air and water quality, soil conservation, and now sustainable farming techniques, legislation passed with the approval of the people. Compare this to the actions of governments of undemocratic, largely agrarian societies where leaders are subjected to no such pressures and environmental degradation is ok.

But Green Parties here in Australia are becoming less and less popular as people recognise that their quasi religious and dogmatic actions will convert our modern, affluent industrialised society into an agrarian distopia. Despite claiming to be a modern and progressive party, they show themselves to be a party of reactionaries, fearing modernity and advocating primitivism …. back to the golden age!

---

Comment on Post Normal Science: Deadlines by Peter317

August 5, 2012, 3:33 am

≫ Next: Comment on Post Normal Science: Deadlines by Peter317

≪ Previous: Comment on Post Normal Science: Deadlines by Beth Cooper

$

0

0

I might add… you might also want to check the fuel consumption of lorries against that of cars.

Comment on Post Normal Science: Deadlines by Peter317

August 5, 2012, 3:42 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by stevepostrel

≪ Previous: Comment on Post Normal Science: Deadlines by Peter317

$

0

0

The atmospheric concentration goes down, but very slowly (hundreds of years)

What stopped it from approaching zero over the last several millennia?

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by stevepostrel

August 5, 2012, 3:59 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by SamNC

≪ Previous: Comment on Post Normal Science: Deadlines by Peter317

$

0

0

I like the way Muller’s biases and attachments are not perfectly correlated with either existing “camp,” thus giving him the potential to add non-redundant information to the discussion. Also that his ego makes him willing to criticize the likes of the “award-winning” Mann in blunt terms that Mann’s colleagues were only willing to do in private emails behind his back. Not buying him on attribution, though, and McKitrick’s referee report scored some direct hits on the rural/urban adjustment process.

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by SamNC

August 5, 2012, 4:02 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by stevepostrel

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by stevepostrel

$

0

0

Dr. Curry,

Its neither/nor case!

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by stevepostrel

August 5, 2012, 4:06 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by SamNC

$

0

0

The point is that the “conversion” narrative is false. He always believed the standard IPCC line, then Climategate got him worried that the Team and the CRU had screwed the pooch, then he launched BEST which he thinks let’s him happily return to his prior beliefs. It’s not an unworthy trajectory, but the dramatic conversion story is PR mythologizing.

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

August 5, 2012, 4:06 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by stevepostrel

$

0

0

I was looking for regional temperature anomalies as measured by satellites enumerated in degrees C/decade and found this:

http://curry.eas.gatech.edu/currydoc/Agudelo_GRL31.pdf

This should make anyone skeptical of CO2 driven global warming. There is no rational explanation for the distribution Curry found and plotted in figure 1. This should make a skeptic out of anyone informed enough to realize that well mixed CO2 can’t possibly explain it.

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

August 5, 2012, 4:11 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

$

0

0

I shouldn’t have written no rational explanation. Of course there some rational explanation for it because the universe obeys a set of laws that govern its behavior and the laws are rational once properly understood. What I meant to say is there is not rational explanation based on anthropogenic CO2 in a well mixed atmosphere.

I have my own suspicions about a rational explanation which largely involves soot emissions and wind patterns.

---

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

August 5, 2012, 4:13 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by captdallas2 0.8 +0.2 or -0.4

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

$

0

0

By the way, Muller is a putz with no basis at all for any attributions he fabricated to go along with the temperature study.

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by captdallas2 0.8 +0.2 or -0.4

August 5, 2012, 4:14 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by SamNC

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

$

0

0

WOW! That might even make some think that land use change might have some impact

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by SamNC

August 5, 2012, 4:16 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by captdallas2 0.8 +0.2 or -0.4

$

0

0

Nobel prices are now political rather than contributions. Nobel will rise from his grave.

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

August 5, 2012, 4:20 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by captdallas2 0.8 +0.2 or -0.4

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by SamNC

$

0

0

Dr. Curry,

re; http://curry.eas.gatech.edu/currydoc/Agudelo_GRL31.pdf

Is it possible to get figure 1 split so it breaks out decadal warming (or cooling) that occured from say April-September and another for October-March? I’d like to see something that gives an indication of whether the warming tends to happen more in the colder part of the year for each hemisphere.

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by captdallas2 0.8 +0.2 or -0.4

August 5, 2012, 4:21 am

≫ Next: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

$

0

0

I am beginning to think just more general emissions plus dust from wind erosion.

Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

August 5, 2012, 4:27 am

≫ Next: Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Girma

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by captdallas2 0.8 +0.2 or -0.4

$

0

0

I tried land use change and drew a blank. Northeastern Canada is a hotspot and there’s little land use change. Australia has lots of land use change and it cooled. Seems like there’s too many exceptions. Generall in the NH prevailing wind is west-east so if you think about industrial smokestack concentration and wind patterns it might make more sense. I was vaguely aware the NH had more warming than SH but I wasn’t aware the warming pretty much starts above the 30th northern parallel and anything south of that is more likely to have cooled. There is absolutely no way that CO2 in a well mixed atmosphere can explain this but because industry is largely concentrated above the 30th northern parallel, as well as amount of time when land is covered by snow and most susceptable to albedo change by soot, that may be a rational explanation. It sure looks anthropogenic just not anthropogenic CO2.

Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Girma

August 6, 2012, 12:50 am

≫ Next: Comment on John Christy’s EPW testimony by Steve Milesworthy

≪ Previous: Comment on The ‘irresistable’ story of Richard Muller by Dave Springer

$

0

0

The championing of scientific integrity is a cause unto itself.

Beautiful.

That is what we skeptics are doing in our spare time.

---

Comment on John Christy’s EPW testimony by Steve Milesworthy

August 6, 2012, 12:58 am

≫ Next: Comment on John Christy’s EPW testimony by gbaikie

≪ Previous: Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Girma

$

0

0

…since none of them is able to correctly reproduce past climate patterns and observed data…

Eric Ollivet, your definition of V&V is inappropriate – even if we had the perfect forcing datasets that would enable you to attempt the reproduction of past climates.

If a model passed your test it would *not* be properly validated any more than tossing a 10p and a 5p coin and getting heads both times proves that the two coins are identical. Climate is a chaotic process so cannot be predetermined.

Comment on John Christy’s EPW testimony by gbaikie

August 6, 2012, 1:01 am

≫ Next: Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Jim D

≪ Previous: Comment on John Christy’s EPW testimony by Steve Milesworthy

$

0

0

“But, as we all know, both water and CO2 are necessary for successful plant growth even though neither of them can be termed a “food”. But both have to be in the right amounts. Too little water or too much water and the plant doesn’t do well. ”
Plants like animals like water, but both can drown in water, if roots can get enough oxygen, lots of water is not a problem.
“Take care when watering. Roots at such an early stage of development can be drowned easily. When over water, plant root-hairs cannot take in any oxygen. Microscopic root-hairs will only absorb water and nutrients in the presence of oxygen. Over watering a plant at any stage of growth will not only mean that the plant is denied any nutrients, but water as well. ”
http://www.hydroponics.com/howtoinfo/hydroponics%20articles/basic_root_care.html

“I’m sure Everyone knows that. So why do people claim its any different for CO2? Why do they claim the more the better?”

Because it is.
Plants need water and CO2 and sunlight [and they make oxygen, which they also need]
Plants also need other things- their things [other than humans] eat them and things other than humans that help them grow [symbiosis]

Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Jim D

August 6, 2012, 1:08 am

≫ Next: Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Jim D

≪ Previous: Comment on John Christy’s EPW testimony by gbaikie

$

0

0

Did you notice the last 12 months were the warmest 12 months ever in the US, or haven’t you stepped outside?

Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Jim D

August 6, 2012, 1:13 am

≫ Next: Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by gbaikie

≪ Previous: Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Jim D

$

0

0

I am saying they are looking irresponsible at this time, and it made the news because of that appearance.

Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by gbaikie

August 6, 2012, 1:19 am

≫ Next: Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Steve Milesworthy

≪ Previous: Comment on Week in review 8/5/12 by Jim D

$

0

0

“gbaikie,

The solution you have is indeed the correct one if you want to encourage farmers only to grow safe low risk crops. I suppose the inconvenient problem is that there are people to feed, so you sometimes might need to encourage the farmers to grow food in a situation where the best business choice would be to grow something else (or nothing).”

Is this any possible good reason to subsidize anything. Yes, probably or least it possible to have a reasonable argument about it. The main argument against it is government is too incompetent. And many people recognize this, but some leap to the conclusion that government can be competent [if you only could elect the right people or some silliness]. It much wiser to recognize the limits of how competent government can be, rather than have too much faith in them- better to regard government as somewhat childish, rather than assume they are grown ups and the people are the children.
Another element is the judgement of what is best to grow or whatever. As general rule it seems the citizens [including farmers] generally know what is more “valuable for society”- when has free market, the market informs what is most valued for the society. And one gets some problems when some individuals generally make the mistake that the market is not determining the right value. It could possible that some individuals could be correct, but it seems most of the time there are not correct.