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Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by WebHubTelescope

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But consider that cloud sizes are not fractals. T. Yuan from NASA last year looked at the distribution of cloud sizes and found the usual maximum entropy variation in sizes that also occurs in lake areas and in oil reservoir volumes.
http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/11/7483/2011/acp-11-7483-2011.pdf
Nearly the same distribution in cloud sizes occurs over land as over water.

The science is in how the variation comes about, and that has to do with the great diversity in growth rates.


Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Doug Cotton

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The adiabatic lapse rate is established by molecular collisions (diffusion) which must retain entropy. The Second Law is not violated just because it appears that heat is transferred downward in the atmosphere. It’s not. All that happens is that PE converts to KE, and entropy becomes uniform over the whole system, be it a small room or the whole atmosphere.

If, as is generally the case for perhaps over 99% of Earth’s surface, there is a small “step down” in temperature from the surface to the atmosphere at the interface, it is not possible for KE to be conducted (diffused) back from the cooler atmosphere to the warmer surface.

Yes, the base of the atmosphere has, over the life of the Earth, autonomously achieved an equilibrium temperature determined by mean Solar insolation and the effective adiabatic lapse rate which is proportional to the gravitational force.

However, where the surface is warmer its temperature is merely “supported” by that of the base of the atmosphere. It cannot fall significantly below that temperature in calm weather over a flat surface, but as the temperatures approach, the rate of conduction (diffusion) from the surface to the atmosphere will slow down – that’s standard physics. Rates of evaporative cooling do likewise.

The slowing of these non-radiative processes depends on temperature differences right at the interface. In contrast, the slowing of radiative cooling (less than a third of all surface cooling) depends on the temperature of the source of radiation (which may be much higher in the atmosphere) and the proportion of the total potential Planck curve for that temperature which is actually “filled in” by the spectral lines of radiation. This is why carbon dioxide has less effect per molecule than water vapour, and WV less than a solid surface which may be close to a true blackbody if it has a wide range of elements in its composition.

But, as I have said, any slowing of radiative cooling will be nullified by a compensating effect in non-radiative cooling. The pre-determined lapse rate is the main player in adjusting this compensation process.

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Girma

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…numerous CO2 results were scrapped from 1900 to 1940 on the basis that something was wrong with them. In one report, every test scrapped showed higher historic levels than are comfortable for Global Warming scientists.

http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/ten-global-warming-myths/

The recent correlation between CO2 and temperature indicates that this correlation must exist before 1950’s.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/esrl-co2/compress:12/derivative/scale:0.2/detrend:-0.45/offset:-0.4/plot/hadcrut3vgl/compress:12

It is the warming that causes the increase in CO2 concentration.

It is the warming that causes the increase in sea level.

It is not the increase in CO2 concentration that causes the increase in the sea level.

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Jim D

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This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the term ‘negative or positive feedback’ in the context of climate change. The Planck response is not considered part of the feedback, because that is of course negative. The earth will warm when forced positively and then stop warming when in a new equilibrium. The negative and positive refer to the warming relative to the plain Planck warming, of course.

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Chief Hydrologist

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We can go into an infinite regression further and further back to with insults. It is not just me you have abused and attempted to bully and you commenced your invidious behaviour from the start. You have shown yourself to be a protagonist of the highest order and the lowest type.

Being at a stage in my life where work is not about money – I find it difficult to understand why life is not all about work. But really – to keep bringing it back to money is a bit vulgar don’t you think blah balh?

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Girma

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IPCC have been softened to the point that in this way the IPCC is not any more an assessment of published science (which is its proclaimed goal) but production of results

Essentially, I feel that at this point there are very little rules and almost anything goes. I think this will set a dangerous precedent which might mine the IPCC credibility, and I am a bit unconfortable that now nearly everybody seems to think that it is just ok to do this. Anyways, this is only my opinion for what it is worth.

http://www.assassinationscience.com/climategate/1/FOIA/mail/0968705882.txt

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Jim D

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Science fail, Girma. You are running the carbon cycle backwards. Remember the ocean also receives carbon in the real world.

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Beth Cooper

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http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bough/The_Magical_Control_of_the_Weather

The magical control of weather, chapter 5, in James Frazer’s
‘The Golden Bough,’ describes the magic art of weather -
prophecy and influence over rainfall in early societies. This
was seen to be the domain of a man-god whose soul was so
delicately attuned to nature that he was set apart from the
manual labour of the tribe, and as magician expected to
regulate the weather, forecast the future, heal disease and
perform other public goods.

Rain dances, spraying water on the earth, rituals with sacred
stones, maidens, the foreskins of boys, the beating of drums
to represent thunder, these were the early hypotheses that
preceded science. In their day they were legitimate hypotheses,
though they may not have stood the test of experience. Seems
the study of the behaviour of clouds, today, has its uncertainties


Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by stefanthedenier

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Wagathon | November 30, 2012 at 12:07 am said: ”Facts are facts: The Little Ice Ages and Solar Minima in 1440-1460, 1687-1703 and 1809-1821 …(Professor Nils-Axel Mörner)”

Mate, little ice age and Solar Minima are facts, as much as Santa and Rudolf / imaginary facts.

1] 1440 was 350y before Cook discovered Australia, New Zealand. He didn’t spread thermometers on every kilometer and stayed to monitor. Did yo get there 350y before him? and in mid pacific, and Antarctic ocean / continent????!!!! Liar, liar, pants on fire!

2] to demonstrate how they monitored, ”OR FORGED” the sun’s activity: you go out tomorrow, and count the sunspots. For that, no need to go to Antarctic, Greenland – just out in your backyard – tell us the number of spots you saw on the sun’s surface; or admit that: you are more shameless CON, than all the Warmist combined. Demonstrate how they did it, or brown paper bag over your head. Every Plimer’s excrement should look at the sun, for the good of humanity. Mann, Hansen take drivel like yours; as indicator – to know that they are safe.

Lying about the ”GLOBAL” temp for distant past ; when nobody knows what was last year’s GLOBAL temp , is the precursor of all Warmist evil. Admit the truth – half will be forgiven; for blindly supporting the Warmist phony GLOBAL warmings. Don’t tell lies that kids wouldn’t believe – because: Hansen &Co are pointing what crap to the politicians, what the Fakes like you are dishing. Shame, shame!!!

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Tom

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A bird in the hand…

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Wagathon

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… you don’t seem to have the slightest appreciation for simple facts like, early Canadian ecnonomics was based on the hunting and trapping of animals for their fur. Unfortunately, not even Americans have an appreciation anymore for extant conditions when George Washington crossed theDelaware so don’t feel bad about your ignorance of history.

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Captain (Retired) Kangaroo

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Mike,

My best thoughts for the season. I note that you are in fine form and are continuing your work in bringing peace to the climate war – for which you gained your well deserved Nobel Peace Prize nomination.

The whole thing is otherwise a bit unrewarding. They’re a bit like a Fidel Castro bop doll. You bop them and they go down but then they bop right back up again snarling and clenching a metaphysical cigar between the butt cheeks. It is a move that was pioneered by Bill Clinton but I can’t see Hilary putting up with any of that nonsense. When you get bopped by Hilary I would lay odds you stay bopped.

I couldn’t find a Fidel Castro bop doll or it would be destined for your Christmas stocking. The best I could do was a Fidel Castro bobble head – http://www.sears.com/the-bobblehead-castro-bh-fidel-castro-cuban-cigar/p-SPM6197543603P – is there a market for any cr@p at all? Makes my head bobble.

God knows I’m a reasonable, civilised and cultured type. I’ve got 2 wine lists – count them. James Halliday’s top 100 white, red and sparkling wines and his top 100 Christmas selection and I am working my way through them in turn. I have interests in science, literature, maths, physics, fine art and dancing. In the usual Australian way I can ride a horse and lasso a cowgirl. I even turned my hand to house painting recently on the principle that if you want something done right…although it did almost end badly. As I bounced down the stairwell on my butt I could see the funeral in my head. He was houseproud they would say. That steeled my determination to live. If and when I go it will be disgracefully.

But these fervid religious types. If you dare to disagree at all with any their high and mighty moral and intellectual superiority – their instinct is to snarl vociferous abuse. And they are of course repulsive moral reprobates with all the intellect of slime mould – so disagreement is bound to come up. But what the hell – I will give it a go for the sake of peace in the climate war .

Hi Ho Shibboleth.
Captain (Retired) Kangaroo

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by The Skeptical Warmist (aka R. Gates)

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Mike,

I can see this is going to be the beginning of a long friendship with you. Your perspective on what the world is all about is a refreshing and entertaining break from reality– much like any great piece of fiction. I also wish you a genuinely joyous Holiday season.

Comment on Clouds and MAGIC by Captain (Retired) Kangaroo

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‘Finally, Lorenz’s theory of the atmosphere (and ocean) as a chaotic system raises fundamental, but unanswered questions about how much the uncertainties in climate-change projections can be reduced. In 1969, Lorenz [30] wrote: ‘Perhaps we can visualize the day when all of the relevant physical principles will be perfectly known. It may then still not be possible to express these principles as mathematical equations which can be solved by digital computers. We may believe, for example, that the motion of the unsaturated portion of the atmosphere is governed by the Navier–Stokes equations, but to use these equations properly we should have to describe each turbulent eddy—a task far beyond the capacity of the largest computer. We must therefore express the pertinent statistical properties of turbulent eddies as functions of the larger-scale motions. We do not yet know how to do this, nor have we proven that the desired functions exist’. Thirty years later, this problem remains unsolved, and may possibly be unsolvable. ‘

http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/369/1956/4751.full

The statisitics of clouds in the paper you refererence have to do with a power law – with which you should be right at home. Although we have discussed the production of entropy in a nonequilibium system before and reached the reasonable conclusion that maximum entropy is not an applicable concept.

I have saved the paper for later perusal.

Comment on Open thread weekend by captdallas2 0.8 +0.2 or -0.4

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Joshua, fifth graders. That is pre-pubescent or at least it was when I was a fifth grader. How deep should a 5th grade science class really be? What do you think is the appropriate sex education text for K-5?

Joshua on his first day teaching Yazoo Miss. first graders: “There is no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy or GOD. Your illiterate parents are liars! Now answer when your name is called.”


Comment on Open thread weekend by The Skeptical Warmist

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There’s some very unusual upper tropospheric warmth dominating the extreme southern hemisphere (-60 to -90 degrees) right now. This really has carried down from some stratospheric warm anomaly going all the way back to September:

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/strat-trop/gif_files/time_pres_TEMP_ANOM_ALL_SH_2012.gif

It is also associated with a very intense high pressure anomaly that spans from the troposphere into the stratosphere and has been parked over the extreme southern hemisphere for nearly two months:

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/strat-trop/gif_files/time_pres_HGT_ANOM_ALL_SH_2012.gif

Really have to go back to 2002 to see anything of this magnitude.

Comment on Climate change: no consensus on consensus by stefanthedenier

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Montalbano | November 29, 2012 at 7:54 am |said: ”Dear Stephan
Please explain your explanation.Yours etc”

Montalbano, if you agree with the old saying: better late than never, here it’s the explanation. I hope that you are not suffering from ”truth phobia” as the phony Physicist: http://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/2011/08/29/hello-world/

Comment on Open thread weekend by The Skeptical Warmist

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Jim D said: (to Chief Hydro)

“Your cool mode was the warmest decade on record. Do you see the irony in that remark?”
____
Chief Hydro never sees the irony of his own remarks. 2011 was the warmest La Nina year ever recorded– all during this supposed “cool down” that is supposed to last for a “decade or three”.

With such certainty of a cool down in abundance, there is no room for facts.

Comment on Open thread weekend by captdallas2 0.8 +0.2 or -0.4

Comment on Open thread weekend by The Skeptical Warmist

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Probably it will be the warmest “cool down” mode on record. There is no doubt that the PDO provides some “cooling” over periods that can last many decades, but this has to be taken in context to the long-term warming signal that this PDO influence now rides upon.

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