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Comment on Trusting (?) the experts by feet2thefire

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Stephanie asks three important questions about trusting experts, which I paraphrase here:

1. What does it take to look into a model yourself? How deeply must you probe?…
3. Why should we bother since stuff is so hard and we each have a limited amount of time?

I have the notion that what we could find if we look into the code of the models (assuming we not only have the TIME but also the expertise. But if we have the expertise, what might we find?

…A few years ago I read about the early days of climate models. There was one factor that kept making the slope go to infinity, and they were having an impossible time of getting it to go away. They brought in a Japanese (as I recall) programmer/modeler. He found a trick (that term again) that left the rest of the program intact and functioning, but it prevented the curve from going vertical. Problem solved, right?

Well, yeah, but what he DID had nothing to do with mechanisms in the climate. Just because it made the model keep from going haywire doesn’t mean he di ANYTHING for the model mimicking the climate.

Ever since reading that, I’ve wondered how many “fixes” are in the models – fixes that make numbers behave but don’t replicate the physical climate at all. The purpose of the models is NOT to make numbers behave but to be mathematical copies of the mechanism they purport to show.

Since models all have different outputs, It is obvious that each one has not only different values input, but also different fixes.

For every mathematical fix, I give them a good old Brooklyn cheer – and would flunk them for fudging not the data but the handling of the data. Any fudge at all is a failure. And I DO expect that a good objective look into ALL the models would show such tricks.

At the same time, we all also know that they don’t include proper understanding of water vapor, so no matter what else they have in the models’ code, they are “misunderrepresenting” the biggest greenhouse gas (as GW Bush might put it).

Steve Garcia


Comment on Geek manifesto by manacker

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tempterrain

You cite Richard Dawkins (Foundation for Reason & Science)
richarddawkins.net

Our mission is to support scientific education and critical thinking to overcome religious fundamentalism, superstition, intolerance and suffering.

Sounds good to me so far.

I especially like that part about “critical thinking”.

Max

Comment on Open thread weekend by Edim

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That cannot be right, Dalton colder than Maunder? The graph looks wrong, cooling in the first half of the 20th century? How long is that decade, 40 years?

Comment on Geek manifesto by manacker

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Of course, if Dawkins is carrying painful baggage that makes it hard for him to think rationally (rather than emotionally) about religion, this could present a problem for him – but his “manifesto” sounds OK as written.

Is there some specific reason you bring him up (related to our topic), tempterrain?

Max

Comment on Geek manifesto by oneuniverse

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1. Possibly because it had a light touch, unlike your thankfully deleted humourless bile (although Dave can do that too).
2. An anonymous commenter writing personal insults against a named one always scores lower.
3. David didn’t call you “**** *******” or similar, which is a big step for him, and needs acknowledgement (Although your timing sucks, David).

Comment on Open thread weekend by manacker

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BBD

Naw. The MWP peaked in the 900s according to most sources.

And there are independent studies from all over the world using different paleo climate methods, which all conclude that the MWP was slightly warmer than today.

There are historical records from the civilized world at the time confirming a period that was warmer than today, followed by a period that was colder.

There is even physical evidence, for example from carbon-dated remains of trees recovered under receding alpine glaciers at altitudes above today’s tree line, etc.

Check ‘em out, BBD – and forget about the “shtick” (and it’s “spaghetti clones”). That’s “voodoo science” (a Pachauri expression, he apparently knows something about).

Max

Comment on Open thread weekend by BBD

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And there are independent studies from all over the world using different paleo climate methods, which all conclude that the MWP was slightly warmer than today.

No there aren’t.

Comment on Open thread weekend by BBD

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Naw. The MWP peaked in the 900s according to most sources.

No it didn’t. References please.


Comment on Open thread weekend by manacker

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Hey folks, the cited curve we seem to be getting all excited about shows “Annually resolved variations of May-June temperature between 1040 and 2011 AD, based on 545 samples of living trees and historical timbers (Larix decidua Mill.) from the Slovakian Tatra Mountains in the northwestern Carpathian arc.” Credit: Ulf Büntgen

“May-June temperature?”

Start date “1040″ (well after MWP peak)?

“Slovakian Tatra Mountains?”

Well, IF (the BIG word) you believe that tree rings give a temperature proxy (without “hiding a decline”), then this tells you what could have happened in May-June in a part of what is now Slovakia from the end of the MWP to today.

Certainly interesting.

File it together with all the many other independent studies from all over the world using various paleo-climate techniques, which all show a MWP that was slightly warmer than today.

Max

Comment on Draft U.S. Climate Assessment Report by David Springer

Comment on Draft U.S. Climate Assessment Report by David Springer

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There are proofs in math and logic. If you divorce science from math and logic, which warmists are wont to do, then I suppose there are no proofs in science. They seem to like scientific proofs though. Ask for proof that the globe is warming and stand by for an earful of disparate facts that prove it.

Comment on Open thread weekend by BBD

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Start date “1040″ (well after MWP peak)?

Repeat incorrect information. References supporting claim that ‘MWP’ peaked ~900CE please.

Comment on Open thread weekend by BBD

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Data *denial* without even bothering to read the study. R.Gates has his answer. I’m sure he is as unsurprised as I am.

Comment on Open thread weekend by BBD

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File it together with all the many other independent studies from all over the world using various paleo-climate techniques, which all show a MWP that was slightly warmer than today.

It doesn’t show an ‘MWP’ warmer than today. It very clearly shows the reverse. Why do you make such blatantly false statements?

Comment on Hansen on the ‘standstill’ by manacker

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Curious

Five to six times as much incoming solar radiation is reflected back to space from clouds as from the Earth’s surface (of which only a fraction is from snow or ice).

Snow and ice has a higher albedo than the land (or water) that is underneath it, but if it melts, a portion of the incoming radiation is still reflected back to space.

Clouds exist at all latitudes, especially in the tropics over the ocean, where the sun rays are most direct and intense; ice and snow only exist at higher latitudes, where the incoming solar radiation is less intense.

So, yes, your statement is correct:

“Other than snow, I am sure clouds also play a role.”

Max


Comment on Hansen on the ‘standstill’ by willard (@nevaudit)

Comment on Hansen on the ‘standstill’ by timg56

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RE : next several years being like the late 50′s – early 60′s.

So I can look forward to pj’s with feet, being called to supper rather than having to cook it, black & white tv, a comeback by Elvis and in general, a care free life with little responsibility?

Then again, it could mean a return to diapers. Not ready to go there again.

Comment on Hansen on the ‘standstill’ by timg56

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Going to have to get my son to add this to my ipod.

Any truth willard to the rumor you were the body double for the ab scenes?

Comment on Trusting (?) the experts by stefanthedenier

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WebHubTelescope | January 16, 2013 at 12:43 am said: ''Sure why would I not let you? Unlike this place, I don’t delete comments on my blog''. How come you forgot to send me my Christmas card? Are you getting a dementia or something? Happy new year Crackpot!

Comment on Hansen on the ‘standstill’ by GaryM

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“… global temperature will rise significantly in the next few years as the tropics moves inevitably to the next El Nino phase.”

Wow, what a courageous prediction. Global average temperature will rise when a significant part of the globe warms with the next El Nino.

What next? Northern hemisphere temps will rise significantly in the next few months as the calendar moves inevitably to April, May, June and July?

Who says CAGWers never make falsifiable predictions?

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