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Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by Alexander Biggs

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An ominous word has crept into the Enclish lanuage in recent years ‘policymaker’ It suggests there is a class of people devoted to the making of policy. They crop up frequently in climate science, particularly in findings handed down by the UN. Apparently these ‘policvmakers’ don’t have to understand climate science, only carry out the instructions of the UN. Thus almost overnight a new bureaurocracy has been created to work within our democracies, but has no democratic oversight.

Previously we have enjoyed what we call a ‘,market economy’ and this has surved us well almost since Adam was a boy.because it provided what we needed or could afford.and required little oversight. Consequently this new class of citizen shuld be carefully watched. Since we don’t have a world government we don’t need a world public service and we don’t want one by stealth.


Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by Wagathon

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<em>Global temperature fell from 1940 to 1970, rose to 1 998, and has fallen since. That’s 40 years of cooling and 28 years of warming. Global temperature is now similar to that of 1990. But atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration has increased at a near constant rate and by more than 30% since 1940. It has increased by 8% since 1990.</em> ~Richard Courtney (see above)

Comment on Congressional testimony and normative science by Chief Hydrologist

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‘Large, abrupt climate changes have affected hemispheric to global regions repeatedly, as shown by numerous paleoclimate records (Broecker, 1995, 1997). Changes of up to 16°C and a factor of 2 in precipitation have occurred in some places in periods as short as decades to years (Alley and Clark, 1999; Lang et al., 1999). However, before the 1990s, the dominant view of past climate change emphasized the slow, gradual swings of the ice ages tied to features of the earth’s orbit over tens of millennia or the 100-million-year changes occurring with continental drift. But unequivocal geologic evidence pieced together over the last few decades shows that climate can change abruptly, and this has forced a reexamination of climate instability and feedback processes (NRC, 1998). Just as occasional floods punctuate the peace of river towns and occasional earthquakes shake usually quiet regions near active faults, abrupt changes punctuate the sweep of climate history.’

‘Recent scientific evidence shows that major and widespread climate changes have occurred with startling speed. For example, roughly half the north Atlantic warming since the last ice age was achieved in only a decade, and it was accompanied by significant climatic changes across most of the globe. Similar events, including local warmings as large as 16°C, occurred repeatedly during the slide into and climb out of the last ice age. Human civilizations arose after those extreme, global ice-age climate jumps. Severe droughts and other regional climate events during the current warm period have shown similar tendencies of abrupt onset and great persistence, often with adverse effects on societies.’ http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10136&page=R1

Well obviously someone is right and someone wrong – the NASA page you link to or the NAS Committee on Abrupt Climate Change consisting of many of the world’s leading climate change researchers.

Odd – I think I provided this link – http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=8703 – and here is the conclusion.

‘Unlike El Niño and La Niña, which may occur every 3 to 7 years and last from 6 to 18 months, the PDO can remain in the same phase for 20 to 30 years. The shift in the PDO can have significant implications for global climate, affecting Pacific and Atlantic hurricane activity, droughts and flooding around the Pacific basin, the productivity of marine ecosystems, and global land temperature patterns. This multi-year Pacific Decadal Oscillation ‘cool’ trend can intensify La Niña or diminish El Niño impacts around the Pacific basin,” said Bill Patzert, an oceanographer and climatologist at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. “The persistence of this large-scale pattern [in 2008] tells us there is much more than an isolated La Niña occurring in the Pacific Ocean.”

Natural, large-scale climate patterns like the PDO and El Niño-La Niña are superimposed on global warming caused by increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases and landscape changes like deforestation. According to Josh Willis, JPL oceanographer and climate scientist, “These natural climate phenomena can sometimes hide global warming caused by human activities. Or they can have the opposite effect of accentuating it.”’

It seems pretty clear that we are in a cool mode. Look for yourself.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/enso/mei/
http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fed/oeip/ca-pdo.cfm

La Nina and cool PDO (cool IPO) to 1976/77, El Nino and warm PDO (warm IPO) to 1998, and La Nina and cool PDO since (cool IPO). They say these modes last 20 or 30 years – but it is more like 20 to 40 years in the proxies. This evidence seems pretty obvious to the unbiased observer – aye FOMBS?

So the NASA page you show is wrong on both counts by a long way. Do you think they should take it down rather than mislead more innocents? Or allow people like you to practice to deceive? I think so. It seems written by a Rebecca Lindsay – listed as a technical writer rather than a scientist. It seems that both she – and you – have got it all wrong.

Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by pottereaton

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Heinrich wrote: “You do realize that the Pentagon, Department of Transportation, and the Department of Commerce are, in fact, “formulating long-range comprehensive energy and climate policy”, no?”

Yes I realize that. In this statement you are appealing to a dependent authority that is basing its policies on an unreliable authority. Rather like you in that respect, I would venture.

What you are doing is trying to turn the arguments of skeptics back on themselves by accusing them of the same things of which they are accusing consensus warmists. The situations are not analogous.

For example: first you accuse skeptics of appealing to authority when they are in fact challenging the authorities in climate science; and then in your last post you clumsily accused me of making an “alarmist” statement by pointing out that formulating energy and climate policy is premature and could be destructive. I based that on the accumulating empirical evidence that now shows there has been no significant warming in fifteen years or so, which suggests that people who attributed warming to increases in CO2 were not a reliable authority and did not have a full understanding of the forces at work. It’s not “alarmist” in any way although it may be alarming to you personally.

I’ve debated formally before and I find your tactics sophomoric. You are pounding on the table because the facts are no longer on your side and the certitude once flagrantly brandied about in climate science is now “inoperative,” to quote one of Nixon’s lackeys. There is too much uncertainty and even people like James Annan are addressing the issue.

Eisenhower understood the dangers and expressed them in his oft-quoted farewell address that most people think only warned of the military-industrial complex: “Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.”

Comment on Congressional testimony and normative science by Brandon Shollenberger

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steven, you’re right. I was thinking of the puckle gun, not the gatling gun.

Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by pottereaton

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@Heinrich:

pottereaton

What skeptics are saying is that there is no reliable authority.

Not the ones that choose Freeman Dyson.

Freeman Dyson is not a climate scientist.

There. See how easy it is?

Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by Peter Lang

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AB Since we don’t have a world government we don’t need a world public service and we don’t want one by stealth.</blockquote> Absolutely correct. We don't want world government or Agenda21. Nor do we want a legally binding global agreement of a global carbon pricing scheme because that would require a bureaucracy to administer it, a police force to enforce it, a global legal system with world courts to adjudicate the cases and a world military to make recalcitrant government conform to the dictates of the world government.

Comment on Congressional testimony and normative science by tempterrain

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The reason for having no, or lax, gun control laws is to give the US citizenry some defence against their own government should hostilities erupt. ie a Civil War. Have I understood that right?

When civil wars do start I haven’t noticed that the legality, or otherwise, of firearm ownership has had much bearing on the outcome. Perhaps I haven’t been that observant.

There’s one going on in Syria at the moment. Maybe the Assad government just needs to do pass suitable laws declaring all non-government armaments illegal? The rebels will then have to hand them in and afterwards all they will be able to do is complain bitterly: “Well of course we would have won but for those laws. It’s all just so unfair”.


Comment on Congressional testimony and normative science by Wagathon

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If the Jews had taken out just one German soldier for every family that was marched off to the Hereaus gas chambers there would have been at a minimum at lease one additional assasination attempt on Hitler’s life… by his own men!

Comment on Congressional testimony and normative science by Captain Kangaroo

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stefanthecrier,

No you should apologise in writing to everyone for having skippies loose in the the top paddock. You know what I mean. It’s because you had it in the fridge too long and now don’t know whether you are arthur or martha. Actually – now that I think of it – are you sure you are not martha? Seems quite likely to me – you’re both spotted drongos in safari suits.

Why do you think we should believe anything? You’re as miserable as a bandicoot and wouldn’t know a map of tassie from a moke. You’re a sandwich short of a picnic and shonky as a crow flying backwards.

So why don’t you give us all a break and apologise in writing. If you are martha – you will have to apologise twice as hard.

Comment on Congressional testimony and normative science by tempterrain

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Whatever label science carries, the term itself usually implies a quest for knowledge. It is carried out by inquiring minds determined to know what had previously been unknown.

I’m just wondering if those so-called sceptics, on this blog and elsewhere, are actually like that. Do they actually want an answer to the question of whether AGW is real?

I do have some slight doubts on this. I read a lot of arguments that it is impossible to carry out the necessary experiments on the Earth’s atmosphere to satisfactorily to settle the scientific question, and then they go on to say something like “so we have to admit that we just don’t know” etc etc. I do get the impression that some sceptics are happier not knowing, or at least pretending not to, that actually knowing. Am I being too cynical in taking that view?

Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by Faustino

Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by Faustino

Comment on Congressional testimony and normative science by Captain Kangaroo

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No you are being naive to believe that climate science has much in the way of certainty at all. What seems fairly certain – however – is that the world is in a cool decadal mode and not warming for decades hence. You lose.

Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by Faustino

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“to help the economy move toward sustainability” Martha, we live in a world of constant change, in which nothing is sustainable. An economy is never sustainable, it is exposed to a vast range of changes in both its internal and external environments, e.g. shifts in demand, in technology, in global competition … The best “no regrets” policy is to assume that the world in a few years will be different from what we now imagine, plan for what seems most likely but adopt flexible mind-sets, systems and regulations which help us to prosper whatever befalls.


Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by Faustino

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Stefan you say that “climate can be improved.” But climate varies widely across the globe, and people’s assessment of a particular climate’s agreeability varies even more. There will rarely be agreement on what constitutes “improved” climate. At the moment, and throughout human history, if people don’t like, or can’t survive with, the local climate, they move on. That will no doubt continue.

Comment on Congressional testimony and normative science by willard (@nevaudit)

Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by Girma

Comment on Congressional testimony and normative science by blueice2hotsea

Comment on Adapting to climate change: Challenges and opportunities for U.S. business community by Beth Cooper

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I regret ter say
that some there are,
lovers of the guv-uh-
mint, who think
‘high regrets’ policy’s
the same as
‘no regrets’ policy
… and this
is no joke.

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