Quantcast
Channel: Comments for Climate Etc.
Viewing all 148626 articles
Browse latest View live

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Michael

$
0
0

“Perhaps it helps to make this personal. If you or your child suffered the rare adverse reaction to a vaccine, is it fair that you bear this burden for the greater good?” – Rob

Life ain’t fair…..but i did just a few week ago take that risk.

And really there is no ‘greater good’ argument at play here.

I had my child vaccinated because the risks of non-vaccination far outweigh the risks of vaccination.

“What it is is arrogant and stupid to ignore the feelings of parents….” – Rob

What is stupid is to not present the best information we have to parents – and that is that the risks of non-vaccination far outweigh the risks of vaccination.

Anything else is failing the real issue here – that a baby that can’t make this decision for itself and is reliant on someone else to make a good decision oh his/her behalf.


Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by A fan of *MORE* discourse

$
0
0

Part of the problem is that Climate Etc‘s fringe-thermodynamics community (D C, Rob Ellison, etc.) never code-up their own molecular simulations. In consequence, their faulty thermodynamic understanding never gets reality-checked against statistical mechanics calculations.

Recommendation for Thermodynamical Denialists  Code-up the exercises in any well-respected textbook on molecular simulation. Cognitive abnormalities in respect to thermodynamics will be corrected swiftly, thoroughly, and rigorously.

Conclusion  No amount of thermodynamical rhetoric suffices to compensate for deficiencies in basic computational skills.

Needless to say, similar considerations apply to climate-change skepticism that is founded solely upon statistical considerations.

@book{Address = {San Diego}, Author = {Frenkel, Daan
and Smit, Berend}, Publisher = {Academic Press},
Title = {Understanding {M}olecular {S}imulation: from
{A}lgorithms to {A}pplications}, Year = {1996}}

\scriptstyle\rule[2.25ex]{0.01pt}{0.01pt}\,\boldsymbol{\overset{\scriptstyle\circ\wedge\circ}{\smile}\,\heartsuit\,{\displaystyle\text{\bfseries!!!}}\,\heartsuit\,\overset{\scriptstyle\circ\wedge\circ}{\smile}}\ \rule[-0.25ex]{0.01pt}{0.01pt}

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Rob Ellison

$
0
0

I was of course quoting – did I not provide the link?

Do you not get the concept of jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft on the premise that if you don’t it might crash?

Climate extremism has crashed and burned. Good riddance.

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Pierre-Normand

$
0
0

Rob Ellison: “Velocity distributions consists of molecules at different velocities. Velocities of groups of molecules on the moon ‘flying freely’ are not independent of height.”

That point is granted from the get go. It’s indeed essential to the demonstration (which shows that you haven’t been paying attention at all to what Fan had said). They come out of the box with a Maxwell-Boltzmann speed distribution. Since they are free falling in the Moon’s gravity field, not only are their KE falling off linearly with height, they also don’t all have enough KE to climb to some level z where their potential energy would be PE(z) = m * g_M * z, where g_M is the acceleration of gravity at the Moon surface. They just don’t all have enough KE to get that high. Hence, as you look at the speed distribution of the molecules that have climbed to height H, you only are considering a *subset* of the molecules that exited the box. (Which also was the point of my marathon runners analogy, which may be easier for some to picture).

Though molecules from *this* subset now have kinetic energies uniformly lowered by the value PE(H), compared with the kinetic energies that *they* had when leaving the box, there were many more molecules leaving the box that aren’t part of this subset. So, Maxwell’s result essentially is that the *subset* from the molecules leaving the box *that* make it to height H have the same M-B speed distribution (at height H) as had the *full* set while it left the box (at height 0).

(We can quibble over the fact that molecules only are coming out within the upper half solid angle of the the full isotropic M-B speed distribution, or that some have escape velocity and don’t fall back down, but that’s inessential to the core argument. One just has to track the relevant sets (ignore molecules on their way down) or imagine the “Moon”‘s gravity g_M to be much stronger.)

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Michael

$
0
0

I’m not sure what this last comment means.

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Pierre-Normand

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Pierre-Normand

$
0
0

Rob Ellison: “Oh yeah – the kinetic energy is independent of the height because it goes up and then goes down. Incorrect and trivial.”

What? Who said KE is independent of height?

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Pierre-Normand

$
0
0

Rob Ellison: “Oh – yeah. My view of thermal stratification under gravity is that it may or may not happen. The physical mechanism seems reasonable enough.”

What is “the physical mechanism” that you are referring to? It would seem that the imprecisely stated mechanism that you have waved your hands in the direction of is debunked by Maxwell’s direct argument about sameness of speed distributions. You mechanism seems to amounts to simply loosing track of the relevant molecule populations. The argument from the second law just reinforces the conclusion that M-B speed distributions (and hence kinetic temperature of ideal gases) must be invariant with height.


Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by aaron

$
0
0

Greg Laden

Greg Laden has a post Mark Steyn and Judith Curry. Relevant excerpt: “Two items related only because these two seem to like each other and there are coeval happenings.”

JC comment: I guess if you don’t have any real arguments against my article, you can always criticize me for the company I keep.

A better response would be, “Actually, Mark Steyn is Michael Mann’s buddy.”

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Rob Ellison

$
0
0

Sure I did FOMBS. I showed how the kinetic energy of a molecule on the moon is not independent of the height. Pure Newtonian physics that.

What he deems to be statistics is Earth sciences. What he knows about hydrodynamics and thermodynamics could be written on his pinhead. His pretension to computational skills is just that.

FOMBS is a bore who turns cluelessness into an art form in the service – quite openly stated – of climate extremist ambitions to overthrow capitalism and democracy. It is in stark contrast to rational and workable policies for social and economic development and environmental stewardship.

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Rob Ellison

$
0
0

‘Observation A No amount of common-sense thermodynamic arguments’ – and he links to P-N lauding his clearly incorrect musing about molecules on the moon and quoting Wikipedia.

‘Observation B’ – FOMBS is dedicated to the overthrow of capitalism and democracy. Good luck with that fringe obsessions.

‘Observation C’ – for statistics read Earth Sciences.

And the world is still not warming FOMBS. So sad too bad. It has to do with the dynamical mechanism at the heart of climate. I am sure it is beyond the cognitive abilities of some people.

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Rob Ellison

$
0
0

‘Answer The average kinetic energy of the molecules that freely fly to any given height is independent of that height.’ FOMBS

It is where it started and no amount of digression, dissimulation or diversion will change it. The average kinetic energy at any height is inversely related to the potential energy.

Now go away and bore someone else with your obvious nonsense.

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by JamesG

$
0
0

The extent of illogicality and contradiction that can co-exist in a the minds of mainstream climateers is always quite amazing..

“…one would think that the risk of substantial warming entails a substantial risk that is worth hedging against….”
a) Only if the risks outweigh the benefits. But the world is actually greening due to the warming (despite any deforestation) and there are substantially bigger risks in swapping cheap, reliable energy with expensive intermittent energy.
b) “uncertainty in itself is not a reason for inaction”
Since the mode (most probable value) is much closer to 1.5 than 4.5 and since the sensitivity is continually dropping then yes it is a very good reason not to act until we can actually predict something correctly!

“…when someone advocates for a value lower than that, they have some explaining to do as to why such large temperature swings occurred in the (deep) past.”
Classic circular reasoning! CO2 is assumed to be a climate driver because there were otherwise inexplicable heating events BUT they just ignore the cooling events that cannot be explained by CO2. If it isn’t needed for the cooling then it isn’t needed for the heating either! It is more scientifically correct to conclude that past events are nothing to do with CO2 at all.

“..it is well established that warming since 1950 is predominantly anthropogenic”
This is is only a model-derived assertion based on an assumption of declining natural variability, that was utterly refuted when the models were found to have too little natural variation. Assign more dominance to natural variation and there is no need for manmade CO2 to fill any artificial gap between reality and nature.

“this buys us only a decade of extra time ”
Only if you assume that natural variation goes away again after having dominated already the last 150 years – which is a plainly dumb assumption.

“..something that hundreds of thousands of years of paleoclimate records suggest is false”
‘Suggest’ is a typical weasel word. The records suggest rather more that nature can vary all by itself so todays minor warming of 0.6K/century is nothing unnatural or anything to be concerned about.

“The risks of far greater climate sensitivity can’t simply be discounted or dismissed.”
But by all means lets ignore the far more certain risks of restricting fossil fuel use which we absolutely know will cause much pain!

“..her consulting business serves fossil fuel companies”
Let the one that doesn’t use fossil fuels cast the first stone. The hypocrisy is stunning. Yes it might be wonderful if fossil fuels were easily replaced but how many people have to die before the blowhards realize it isn’t so easy as they pretend!

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Pierre-Normand

$
0
0

Rob Ellison wrote: “We are talking the moon – so nothing to hold it up. The assumption is that it shoots out at 300 m/s travels up a kilometer or two slowing down against gravity and eventually stops and starts to fall. At all stages total energy is equal to kinetic plus potential.”

I think I have answered this objection now through stressing the statistical nature of the speed distributions and that they apply to changing collections of molecules. However I forestalled another objection and this threw you off. Sorry for that. I had said that:

“That’s quite irrelevant. Molecules that cross back a given level after crossing it once on the way up come back with the same scalar velocity and hence the same KE as it did on the way up. So the fact that they fall down doesn’t change the velocity (and KE) distribution at that level. And the molecules that never even made it that high up don’t come back down through that level either.”

This was a response to your: “We are talking the moon – so nothing to hold it up.” (which I quoted specifically). Here I was not arguing that the KE distributions are height independent *because* the molecules are falling back down through the same height with the same KA. (This would actually be a non sequitur). I rather thought the fact the molecules pass through the level L twice rather than once was a worry for you. (I now see that that was not your worry. You were merely making a point about *your* reason for believing that speed distributions are height dependent). So I merely pointed out that *once* we have established the speed distribution of the molecules going *up* through the surface, and that this distribution can be the same irrespective of height, then it is irrelevant that there also are molecules coming back down through this surface because their distribution is the same as those going up. But this is not the main argument. It’s just my response to the perceived objection aforementioned.

And then, we were thrown further off course when you made your goofy assertion: “nor is the velocity necessarily the same at the height on the way up as the way down. This is true only at the midpoint of a vertical trajectory.” A goofy assertion that you seem unwilling to either stand by or retract.

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Rob Ellison

$
0
0

Well I am sure that your point was that I was an irrational anti-vac activist. Other than that – your nonsense is the usual attempts at gothchas, moralising and snark. An utter bore – based on the original premise of the article linking climate, vaccinations and evolution.

Vaccines themselves are a balance of personal risk versus statistical benefits – is what I said. It is still true whether you understand it or not.

So is the statement that the space-time continuum doesn’t need evolution. Have a problem?


Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Stephen Segrest

$
0
0

rls — another example in engineering economics assumptions is the importance of having a diversified fuel mix. Some Utilities feel very strongly about this (as to weighting of importance) — and sincerely believe this in their justification of nuclear power. But in making assumptions say on the price of natural gas, the Utility must be consistent in assumptions in their resource planning. In evaluating nuclear they couldn’t use one set of assumptions on natural gas, and then on solar to use another set of assumptions.

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Pierre-Normand

$
0
0

“Sure I did FOMBS. I showed how the kinetic energy of a molecule on the moon is not independent of the height.”

Thanks so much for demonstrating this because it’s an explicit premise of Maxwell’s argument. Without it — if the molecules weren’t slowing down and falling back down — then the population that we track on the way up would be the very same through every higher level and our argument wouldn’t carry through. So, now that you have validated one essential premise, maybe you will be able to look at the other ones and the inferences that they support.

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by aaron

$
0
0

These people have no understanding of the concept of hedging.

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by A fan of *MORE* discourse

$
0
0

Fortunately, there are some good examples out their of public discourse that is civil, accurate, fair, and well-reasoned:

Curry Advocates
Against Action on Climate Change

Conclusion  Ultimately, we all wish that Curry is right, and climate change won’t be as costly as the mountain of evidence suggests.

Unfortunately, the science so far shows that if anything, we’ve been underestimating the scale of the impacts.

The Wall Street Journal does its audience a disservice by portraying a ten-year reprieve (at best) as though it was a full pardon.

Signed:
Professor John Abraham, University of St. Thomas
Dr. Peter Gleick, MacArthur Fellow, hydro climatologist
Professor Scott Mandia, Suffolk County Community College
Professor Michael Mann, Pennsylvania State University
Professor Richard C.J. Somerville, University of California, San Diego

Good on `yah all — Curry and critics alike — for providing good models of civil rational public discourse!

\scriptstyle\rule[2.25ex]{0.01pt}{0.01pt}\,\boldsymbol{\overset{\scriptstyle\circ\wedge\circ}{\smile}\,\heartsuit\,{\displaystyle\text{\bfseries!!!}}\,\heartsuit\,\overset{\scriptstyle\circ\wedge\circ}{\smile}}\ \rule[-0.25ex]{0.01pt}{0.01pt}

Comment on Back from the twitter twilight zone: Responses to my WSJ op-ed by Rob Ellison

$
0
0

‘Question Of those molecules that fly one kilometer high or higher, what is their average kinetic energy as they pass through a height of one kilometer? Through two kilometers? Through three kilometers?

Answer The average kinetic energy of the molecules that freely fly to any given height is independent of that height.’ FOMBS

‘Rob Ellison: “We are talking the moon – so nothing to hold it up.”

At some height it actually has gravitational potential energy – unlike in Earth’s atmosphere where it has buoyant potential and bulk kinetic energies.

Total energy = kinetic + potential

‘That’s quite irrelevant. Molecules that cross back a given level after crossing it once on the way up come back with the same scalar velocity and hence the same KE as it did on the way up. So the fact that they fall down doesn’t change the velocity (and KE) distribution at that level. And the molecules that never even made it that high up don’t come back down through that level either.’se at all

This is an argument for KE being independent of height.

‘Of course this will only work for some specific velocity distributions. Fan’s challenge was for the reader to calculate that this is indeed the case for the actual velocity distribution (or KE distibution) in a gas in thermodynamic equilibrium.’

That molecules speeding past a kilometer high o n the moon has an average kinetic energy independent of the height? Simply not true – and thermodynamic equilibrium simply is ludicrous.

This bears no relation at all to the point FOMBS was erroneously making – and manages to make no logical sense at all. It is so difficult with this person to maintain a grasp on reality under the deluge of nonsense.

Viewing all 148626 articles
Browse latest View live




Latest Images