Quantcast
Channel: Comments for Climate Etc.
Viewing all 148687 articles
Browse latest View live

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by stevefitzpatrick

$
0
0

Ken Rice,
“again you seem to have chosen to entirely miss the point (this can’t be coincidence)”

Civil and on topic? Two snide comments in a single short line.

“That you can show that this is plausible/possible, does not mean that it is likely and certainly does not rule out that we could warm much more than you seem to be suggesting.”

I think you have this a bit backwards. Nic finds a model which best fits the historical data (using some AR5 best estimates) and then makes projections of warming for each emissions pathway. These turn out slower than the warming projected by CGM’s. It would be more accurate to just say Nic’s model suggests slower warming is more likely than faster warming.

Is faster warming possible? Sure, Nic could be wrong. It is fair to ask how the optimization of fit to the data in Nic’s model was done so that you can judge how tightly constrained the climate sensitivity is by the optimization process (and any assumptions which go into it), and so better judge the uncertainty in his projections. I don’t think it is fair to say his result is ‘not likely’ just because it disagrees with GCM estimates. Nic’s estimate for ECS lies within the AR5 “likely range” of 1.5C to 4.5C; it seems to me that actually showing his result is ‘not likely’ requires a lot more than pointing at other estimates which are higher.

The probability of much faster warming (eg. the GCM pooled estimate) is a different question, and one that requires critical evaluation of the assumptions (parameterizations) and uncertainties in each model. Of course, I expect the trajectory of warming over the next three decades will sort this all out, because there is a big difference between the GCM average warming (about 0.24C per decade IIRC) and Nic’s estimates (about 0.12C per decade), and because the emissions pathways have no significant impact on projected warming for the next few decades for either GCM’s or Nic’s model, so today’s “policy choices” will make little difference over that period. If warming follows a path of ~0.12C per decade, as Nic’s model projects, then I think relatively low climate sensitivity will be difficult to refute. If warming follows a path of ~0.24C (or more) per decade, then relatively high climate sensitivity will be difficult to refute.


Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by Don Monfort

$
0
0

I haven’t seen a willy comment, kenny. I could have missed a couple, but typically when willy is haunting you will see several of his gaudy gems in the recent comments. Now I am really getting worried about the little fella. If he is here, his haunting is very weak and a sign he is fading out. Una phantasma desaparecido. Pobrecito willy.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by Turbulent Eddie

$
0
0

Since Nick was too humble to do so, I’ll post a link to his revisit of Hansen 1988.

Yep.

For the MSU era, all observations trend lower than Scenario C:

And yet some, including the old man himself, scare the public with ‘worse than expected’

And some of the less discriminating believe.

Amazing, no?

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by ...and Then There's Physics

$
0
0

Steve,

Civil and on topic? Two snide comments in a single short line.

I only said I would try to not call Nic a pedantic nitpicker if he actually tried to not be one. He doesn’t appear to be trying very hard.

It would be more accurate to just say Nic’s model suggests slower warming is more likely than faster warming.

The problem is that there are other models that also fit the historical data and that show faster warming in future. If we’re interested in understanding what is likely to happen then we should consider everything, not just chose what seems most appropriate. This isn’t really about finding some model that gives us a result that we happen to like, it’s about actually understanding how our climate is likely to respond to increasing anthropogenic forcings.

Of course, I expect the trajectory of warming over the next three decades will sort this all out

I expect so too. However, if the faster warming does materialise, and if 2C is some kind of reasonable target, then we could use up most of our carbon budget in the next 3 decades. Therefore, I actually hope that Nic’s results are closer to reality than the other results.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by Turbulent Eddie

$
0
0

Misplaced, but still,
all observations trend lower than Scenario C:

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by Turbulent Eddie

$
0
0
Now, all trends <b>should</b> trend lower than scenario C, because Hansen had forcing too high. Even more reason for him to admit he was wrong and that warming has been <b><i>less than expected</i></b>!

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by Turbulent Eddie

$
0
0
BTW, Nick, the scenario data is here: <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/data/scen_ABC_temp.data" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclimate.org/data/scen_ABC_temp.data</a> so you can include it in your on line tool.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by matthewrmarler

$
0
0

and Then There’s Physics: Anyone who plays the “we need CO2” card deserves that. TE might just be trying to sound stupid, but he still deserves it.

What he actually wrote was that we do better with more CO2, which is certainly defensible on the evidence. No one “deserves” to be labeled “denialist” (and related terms) while hewing close to the scientific evidence.


Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by Rob Starkey (@Robbuffy)

$
0
0

ATTP writes

“The problem is that there are other models that also fit the historical data and that show faster warming in future. If we’re interested in understanding what is likely to happen then we should consider everything, not just chose what seems most appropriate.”

Specifically which model do you believe has reasonably accurately matched observed conditions for warming? How has that same model done if matching observed changes on annual rainfall at different places around the planet. What level of warming does that model forecast over the next 20 years?

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by climatereason

$
0
0

Don

If willard’s presence is only very faint could he be the guest ghost that mosh has been going on about all thread?

Tonyb

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by ...and Then There's Physics

$
0
0

Matthew,
If TE is unhappy with my comment, then he’s welcome to complain to me.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by niclewis

$
0
0

“By indirect do you mean effects of aerosols on clouds?”
Yes

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by niclewis

$
0
0

Ken
No problem. We all make mistakes, like my silly confusion of GtC and TtC!

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by Turbulent Eddie

$
0
0

Oh please. Anyone who plays the “we need CO2” card deserves that. TE might just be trying to sound stupid, but he still deserves it.

Hi ATTP.

1. You are a carbon based life form that would not be alive were it not for carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

2. Plant life on land and in the oceans store chemical energy through a process scientists call ‘photosynthesis’.

3. Higher amounts of available carbon dioxide result in greater plant growth, apparently both on land and in the oceans.

4. Higher amounts of available carbon dioxide result in greater crop yield.

5. Higher amounts of available carbon dioxide result in reduced land based plant water loss because of more effective respiration.

6. Phytoplankton are the base of most ocean food chains.

7. Phytoplankton are apparently growing in abundance with increased CO2.

Ignoring or denying these facts and factors as benefits to both humans and the biosphere is not part of an inclusive objective assessment of risk/benefit.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by ...and Then There's Physics

$
0
0

Ignoring or denying these facts and factors as benefits to both humans and the biosphere is not part of an inclusive objective assessment of risk/benefit.

Hmmm, but highlighting simplistic truisms without any context isn’t either.


Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by matthewrmarler

$
0
0

and Then There’s Physics: Matthew,
If TE is unhappy with my comment, then he’s welcome to complain to me.

So he is. And so are we all. You ought to apologize for the gratuitous insult. It pollutes the forum.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by Turbulent Eddie

$
0
0

Also, is the vertical axis mislabeled? Oughtn’t it be W/m^2/year?

Yes, it should.
Update.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by ...and Then There's Physics

$
0
0

You ought to apologize for the gratuitous insult. It pollutes the forum.

How long have you interacted on forums that discuss this topic? I didn’t think you were that new? An alternative might be to discourage people from posting denialist talking points. My current working hypothesis is that those who most object to them being pointed out, are simply trying to get away with talking nonsense without being criticised.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by Turbulent Eddie

$
0
0

Hmmm, but highlighting simplistic truisms without any context isn’t either.

Sure it is.

You noted that CO2 is going into the biosphere.

I noted that CO2 going into the biosphere is a pretty good objective indicator of benefit to life on the planet.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by captdallas2 0.8 +/- 0.3

$
0
0

attp, “Promoting your own work, while ignoring – or dismissing – that of others, is not the sign of an objective, unbiased researcher.”

It does create a bit of a competitive atmosphere which some find stimulating. Kinda leaps past that academic inertia situation.

Viewing all 148687 articles
Browse latest View live




Latest Images