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Comment on Decision making under uncertainty – maximize expected social welfare by -1=e^iπ

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“I don’t believe hunger involve morals since even an amoeba will eat to survive.”

Humans have certain morals because evolution favoured humans with those morals, be it killing is bad or hunger is bad. Some moral positions are just so common that they aren’t really controversial.

“You can’t prove this is the optimal way to make decisions”

Because that ultimately depends on how you define optimal in that context. What one can do is that given the underlying assumptions of expected social welfare maximization + some moral parameters, policy A is better than all other policies considered.


Comment on Decision making under uncertainty – maximize expected social welfare by -1=e^iπ

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@ Robert –
Here is a link: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v527/n7577/full/nature15725.html
Burke et al. was also one of the references given in the longer version of the post.

Yes, it is quite interesting that Burke et al., Tsutsui and Nordhaus et al. all get similar results about optimal local temperature being about 13 C. Note though that as global temperatures increase, the temperature gradient between the poles and the equator decreases, which means that the optimal global temperature should be above 13 C (in terms of productivity or happiness). I believe that Richard Tol got a result of ~16 C global temperature being optimal in a 2009 metastudy, although as I understand it, those results have since been modified to suggest optimal global temperature might be closer to 15 C.

Comment on German Energiewende – Modern Miracle or Major Misstep by AK

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<blockquote>Every time you do such properly comparable analyses you find a large proportion of nuclear (e.g. 75%) and backed up by hydro where available and by gas where hydro is not viable is the least cost way by far to reduce the emissions intensity of electricity</blockquote>“[P]<i>roperly comparable analyses</i>” being defined as one that gets the results you want. “<i>LCA</i>” is pretty much a myth for anything more than a decade out. It depends on too many assumptions that those inconvenienced can simply reject. For the immediate future, IMO, the best approach is to focus on using existing reservoirs for storage, and push R&D on the rest. Ambient carbon capture is essential, not just because mitigation without it ain't gonna happen, but also because of the risk that the high pCO2 <a href="http://judithcurry.com/2015/11/26/climate-heretic-part-ii/#comment-746735" rel="nofollow">isn't all due to fossil emissions,</a> as well as the risk of a "tipping point" where other factors keep CO2 levels high despite ending fossil emissions. Power→fuel based on electrolytic H2 and ambient CO2 becomes attractive as the capital cost of conversion technology comes down. <a href="http://www.itm-power.com/sectors/power-to-gas-energy-storage" rel="nofollow">Rapid response electrolysis</a> may well offer an immediate way to profit from currently high-priced electrolysis technology (from load stabilization), allowing learning curve and economies of scale to bring the price down. Solar PV is continuing its exponential price decline, with plenty of new technology coming off the lab bench. Nuclear (fission) is stalled, but should be pursued as a back-up for solar PV, in case its exponential price decline falters. Not to mention military and specialized applications where access to normal distribution is unavailable.

Comment on Decision making under uncertainty – maximize expected social welfare by Peter Lang

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Trying to argue that discount rate is a moral decision is silly and just plain wrong. It might be your opinion and the opinion of social scientists, which includes economists, but this displays ignorance of the real world use of discount rates and how analysts and investors decide what discount rates to use in their analyses. The more you repeat this nonsense the more you damage your credibility. The fact you always dodged answering my perfectly clear questions, and reverting to arguing that discount rates are based on moral values, shows how out of touch with reality you are.

If discount rates were based on morals, what would they be under ISIS or North Korean regime? What were they during regimes with totally different moral values in the past? If you can demonstrate that real world discount rates are significantly different under regimes with different moral values, you should withdraw this assertions and give an appropriate apology for misleading people (and for your dismissive comments). I’d like to see a chart plotting discount rate versus regimes with different moral values.

Comment on Senate Hearing: Data or Dogma? by ristvan

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Joseph, I usually ignore you. Not this time, as you pose an important question, which actually has two separate parts.
Part 1, Mann 1999, featured by WMO and TAR. Thoroughly discredited by Steve McIntyre (peer reviewed and otherwise). Steyn’s book is a desreved pile on refutation. Perhaps, given yourmphrqsing, you are forced to concede that. Else, check into the nearest mental health facility.

Part 2, PAGES2. Now, admittedly Steyn is not focused on that, since the suit and his book involves only MHB99. BUT, have you noticed that McIntyre has demolished PAGES2 as effectively (not to mention consigning Gergis et. al. to the science rubbish heap)? Upside down Tiljander. Yamal. Bristlecones. And much more, worse. PAGES2 have been publishing piecemeal retractions for years now, without crediting Steve Mc for their corrections.
You continue in this vein, I will send Steyn a compendium of SM irrefutable posts for his promised volume 2, plus a link to you personally. Fair target, no collateral damage. But surely also unnecessary, since Steyn/and or his pro bono lawyers apparently read Climate Audit. Do you?

Comment on German Energiewende – Modern Miracle or Major Misstep by Peter Davies

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CG, Sorry, the rules here say you are not supposed to have more than 2 links in a comment, so I cut down on the links.

The original figures came from Wikipedia – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_to_gas#Efficiency and quoting Pathway: Electricity→Gas→Electricity.

Also, last week I was at the UK Energy Storage Conference at Birmingham University. A presenter from ITM Power (which does P2G in Germany) was quoting their hydrogen electrolysis as 75% efficient. If you assume a CCGT efficiency for hydrogen fuel of 60%, equal to the efficiency using methane, then you get somewhere around 45% round trip efficiency (power to hydrogen to power). So the Wikipedia hydrogen numbers do seem to tie up.

The hydrogen electrolysis efficiency is on slide 4 of http://www.itm-power.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ITM_Company_Presentation_June2015.pdf . ITM Power claim it was measured by third parties rather than themselves.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by ...and Then There's Physics

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-1, Maybe I keep saying it because it is what most regard as what is likely to happen if we continue to increase our emissions. Consequently, the condescension in your response is rather surprising. This seems rather surprising, given what the <a href="http://judithcurry.com/2015/11/30/how-sensitive-is-global-temperature-to-cumulative-co2-emissions/#comment-747680" rel="nofollow">IPCC says</a>. <blockquote> The further we displace the ratio of atmospheric CO2 to oceanic CO2 from equilibrium, the greater ocean uptake will be (and is arguably roughly proportional to displacement). It isn’t that hard of a concept. </blockquote> <blockquote> Maybe you should ask yourself why you are so insistent on having a belief contrary to evidence. </blockquote> Maybe you should consider that it isn't a belief and it isn't contrary to the evidence.

Comment on German Energiewende – Modern Miracle or Major Misstep by Davis Swan (@davis_swan)

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Operations report for Gemasolar can be found here: http://www.theblackswanblog.com/BSB_Library/2012_gemasolar_operations.pdf The plant runs 7x24x365 although at below nameplate capacity for some hours of the night in the winter. CSP will NEVER be cost competitive with PV solar on a levelized cost basis but I do not believe (and the market does not reward) that mid-day generation when demand is low is equal to peak demand generation. That is where all the LCOE calculations fail in my opinion. But if we want to really provide reliable and renewable power during prime time there are very few options. South of 35 degrees latitude CSP makes sense as far as I am concerned because at that latitude peak demand occurs in the summer.


Comment on Senate Hearing: Data or Dogma? by Mark Silbert

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Tony,

Your technical work is exceptional and I always look forward to reading it.

Your understanding of American journalism, politics and character is not very good. Your past dismissal of Mark Steyn as some kind of crackpot annoys me. Mark Steyn will go down in history as one of modern day’s most important defenders of freedom of speech. He is a unique individual who is doing a brave thing.

Comment on Senate Hearing: Data or Dogma? by Beta Blocker

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Joseph, because Mark Steyn has been called as a witness at the Senate hearing, he will be offering his testimony regardless of what qualifications he may or may not possess concerning past or current paleoclimate reconstructions.

The obvious solution to the issue you raise is for Dr. Michael Mann himself to be called as a witness so that he can offer direct and informed rebuttal testimony to whatever claims Mark Steyn might be making.

If Dr. Mann is as effective in rebutting Steyn’s testimony as you yourself might expect him to be, his appearance at the Senate hearing could well become a key turning point which swings the outcome of the hearing decisively in the Democrat’s favor.

Comment on Senate Hearing: Data or Dogma? by omanuel

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by -1=e^iπ

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“Consequently, the condescension in your response is rather surprising.”

This is the comment section of an internet blog. You keep trying to read tone where there is none.

“Maybe you should consider that it isn’t a belief and it isn’t contrary to the evidence.”

Evidence generally suggests that the airborne fraction is constant or declining, as others have pointed out in these comments. In order to have an increasing airborne fraction, you would generally need emissions to increase at a higher than exponential rate (if uptake is roughly proportional to displacement from equilibrium). Emissions were increasing roughly exponentially during the 2nd half of the 20th century, but now emission growth is less than exponential (due to slowing population growth and increases in CO2 intensity) so if anything one should expect the airborne fraction to decline over the next half century.

Comment on German Energiewende – Modern Miracle or Major Misstep by Mark Silbert

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Interesting. We (US) pay a third the price of the Germans but we use 3 times as much electricity. Different climates and lifestyles. I’m not moving to Germany any time soon.

Comment on Senate Hearing: Data or Dogma? by Science or Fiction

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I´m not a climate scientist, but I´m also concerned, to say the least, about how IPCC considered natural variability:

IPCC used circular reasoning to exclude natural variability. IPCC relied on climate models (CMIP5), the hypotheses under test if you will, to exclude natural variability:
“Observed Global Mean Surface Temperature anomalies relative to 1880–1919 in recent years lie well outside the range of Global Mean Surface Temperature anomalies in CMIP5 simulations with natural forcing only, but are consistent with the ensemble of CMIP5 simulations including both anthropogenic and natural forcing … Observed temperature trends over the period 1951–2010, … are, at most observed locations, consistent with the temperature trends in CMIP5 simulations including anthropogenic and natural forcings and inconsistent with the temperature trends in CMIP5 simulations including natural forcings only.”
(Ref.: Working Group I contribution to fifth assessment report by IPCC. TS.4.2.)

It starts to get really ugly if we combine that logical flaw with the realization by Gavin Schmidt that ” the model simulations are affected by the (partially overestimated) forcing in CMIP5 as well as model responses”

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Mark says:
3 Nov 2015 at 6:41 PM
Apparently Roy Spencer’s CMIP5 models vs observations graph has gotten some “uninformed and lame” criticisms from “global warming activist bloggers,” but no criticism from any “actual climate scientists.” Would any actual climate scientists, perhaps one with expertise in climate models, care to comment? http://www.drroyspencer.com/2015/11/models-vs-observations-plotting-a-conspiracy/
[Response: Happy to! The use of single year (1979) or four year (1979-1983) baselines is wrong and misleading. The use of the ensemble means as the sole comparison to the satellite data is wrong and misleading. The absence of a proper acknowledgement of the structural uncertainty in the satellite data is wrong and misleading. The absence of NOAA STAR or the Po-Chedley et al reprocessing of satellite data is… curious. The averaging of the different balloon datasets, again without showing the structural uncertainty is wrong and misleading. The refusal to acknowledge that the model simulations are affected by the (partially overestimated) forcing in CMIP5 as well as model responses is a telling omission. The pretence that they are just interested in trends when they don’t show the actual trend histogram and the uncertainties is also curious, don’t you think? Just a few of the reasons that their figures never seem to make their way into an actual peer-reviewed publication perhaps… – gavin]
– See more at: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2015/11/unforced-variations-nov-2015/#sthash.eIH9lMBG.dpuf
(Gavin Schmidt is Climatologist, climate modeler and Director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York).

The travesty is completed by how models are adjusted to keep them in line with observations:

«When initialized with states close to the observations, models ‘drift’ towards their imperfect climatology (an estimate of the mean climate), leading to biases in the simulations that depend on the forecast time. The time scale of the drift in the atmosphere and upper ocean is, in most cases, a few years. Biases can be largely removed using empirical techniques a posteriori. …»
(Ref: Contribution from Working Group I to the fifth assessment report by IPCC; 11.2.3 Prediction Quality; 11.2.3.1 Decadal Prediction Experiments)

And by how the models model parameters seems to be set ref:
Climate forcings in Goddard Institute for Space Studies SI2000 simulations; J. Hansen et al
“The bottom line is that, although there has been some narrowing of the range of climate sensitivities that emerge from realistic models [Del Genio and Wolf, 2000], models still can be made to yield a wide range of sensitivities by altering model parameterizations. We suggest that the best constraint on actual climate sensitivity is provided by paleoclimate data that imply a sensitivity 3 ± 1°C for 2 CO2 [Hansen et al., 1984, 1993, 1997b; Hoffert and Covey, 1992]. It is satisfying that the a priori sensitivity of the SI2000 model comes out near the middle of the empirical range of 2 – 4°C for 2 CO2. However, for the sake of interpreting observed climate change and predicting future change it is appropriate to consider climate sensitivity as an uncertain parameter that may, in fact, be anywhere within that range.”

“Therefore we include the possibility of altering the model’s climate sensitivity. We do this by adjusting an arbitrary cloud feedback as defined in the appendix of Hansen et al. [1997a]. Specifically, the cloud cover is multiplied by the factor 1 + c􏰃T , where 􏰃T, computed every time step, is the deviation of the global mean surface air temperature from the long-term mean in the model control run at the same point in the seasonal cycle and c is an empirical constant. For the SI2000 second-order model we take c = 0.04 and -􏰀0.01 to obtain climate sensitivities of 2°C and 4°C for 2 􏰂 CO2.”

In my view – the idea that the conclusion by IPCC is substantiated by the considerations that IPCC has actually made is falsified – the idea is wrong. Judgement about United Nations climate theory must be suspended.

Comment on Senate Hearing: Data or Dogma? by beththeserf

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The wonderful TV series Foyle’s War’ has an episode,
‘All Clear’, about Operation Tiger, the D Day training
exercise which cost 800 US lives.


Comment on Senate Hearing: Data or Dogma? by Mark Silbert

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BB, you’re kidding………..right?

Comment on German Energiewende – Modern Miracle or Major Misstep by Davis Swan (@davis_swan)

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You make some good points but I have to identify some of the common misleading statements made by renewable advocates (and I am absolutely a renewable advocate).
1) Solar generation matches demand – it does not in any meaningful way. Demand in lower latitudes in summer ramps in the late afternoon – in northern latitudes in the winter it ramps into the night. A cross-correlation would be very poor.
2) Wind is complimentary to solar – wind does not correlate with demand and is not complimentary to solar in any consistent or significant way. Wind even averaged over many thousands of turbines and large geographic areas is extremely erratic and often falls to close to zero. This is especially true with high pressure systems which lead to very hot summer days and very cold winter nights – exactly the times when demand is highest.
Statements like this undermine another of the points you make which is that we need very large scale storage to fill in the gaps with wind. On that front I would say we need to do MUCH MORE. Pumped storage at large scale requires very particular geographic features which are rare and trying to get past environmental concerns to build large reservoirs would be very difficult. I have blogged about every conceivable storage technology and none are within an order of magnitude of being cost effective. Energy storage is where we need to focus and I believe an ISS stype International collaboration is required.

Comment on German Energiewende – Modern Miracle or Major Misstep by Peter Davies

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AK,

While P2G(2P) clearly has decent potential, we do have a requirement to storage electricity to fill in gaps in renewable generation. Therefore you have to include all the costs of getting back to electricity again. Thus the comparison of transmission costs is not really relevant – you will already have transmission lines from the renewable energy generation sites.

On this basis P2G is just too inefficient to use as the first priority storage. The stored unit of electricity starts off costing 2.2 x the cost of normal generated units (45% efficiency), plus the capital costs incurred in the electrolysis and any extra costs in the conversion back to electricty. Whereas units of power from pumped hydro tend to come in at a reasonable price.

While it sounds nice to preserve investment in existing hydrocarbon-fueled land transport, there is going to be a gradual move to electric ground transportation and the old non-electric transport will be able to see out its lifetime while all new transport can be fully electric. By 2035 the move is likely to be complete naturally.

Comment on How sensitive is global temperature to cumulative CO2 emissions? by ...and Then There's Physics

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-1,

This is the comment section of an internet blog. You keep trying to read tone where there is none.

Doesn’t mean it wasn’t condescending. Not that I’m complaining, mind you, my expectations are pretty low. I was more pointing out that condescendingly suggesting that someone is probably wrong when what you’re suggesting flies in the face of what most experts think, is more an indication of your hubris than anything else.

Evidence generally suggests that the airborne fraction is constant or declining, as others have pointed out in these comments.

The only evidence to a decreasing airborne fraction ignored an anthropogenic emission.

Again, those who work on this think it will increase if we continue to increase our emissions, partly due to the reducing ability of the oceans to uptake CO2 as the temperature and concentrations go up, and partly due to a reduction in the ability of the biosphere to continue taking up the same fraction of our emissions. That’s why I happen to think that it might increase. It might not, but someone on a blog condescendingly suggesting that it probably won’t because it seems obvious to them, does little to convince me that it won’t.

Comment on Senate Hearing: Data or Dogma? by Don Monfort

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