Quantcast
Channel: Comments for Climate Etc.
Viewing all 148700 articles
Browse latest View live

Comment on Uncertainty is not your friend (?) by Peter Lang

$
0
0

Pekka Pirila,

Where are we at? Summarising my thoughts, and thinking big picture this is my view:

• Using central values of climate sensitivity and damage function, GHG emissions are not catastrophic. Present estimates are that there is a small net cost.

• Using the best estimates of the ‘tail events’, Nordhaus in both 2008 and 2012 concludes there is no persuasive evidence of catastrophic consequences; he concludes:

we conclude that loaded gun of strong tail dominance has not been discovered to date.

• Nordhaus (2008) shows that by far the least cost way to reduce emissions is with a cost competitive alternative to fossil fuels.

• Bjorn Lomborg has between saying for years that mitigation policies are a massive waste of money and will achieve next to nothing as Kyoto demonstrated). Lomborg recommends we focus on research to provide a cost competitive alternative to fossil fuels.

• We have the most important part of that technology (nuclear Gen III). What is needed is to remove the impediments that are preventing it from being cost competitive with fossil fuels everywhere. Much of the impediments is imposed by governments, so they can be removed by governments too. And part is development and roll out of small modular Gen IV reactors. All this will take decades, but that is where the focus should be, not on another massive international agreement to price carbon.

• See expansion of this last point here: http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2012/06/05/conservatives-who-think-seriously-about-the-planet/comment-page-4/#comment-111744


Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by Dave Springer

$
0
0

“An important corollary is that scientists also need to be prepared to go out and defend their findings to the public.”

If public defense is needed it’s usually because it isn’t science that’s in need of defense but rather it’s a narrative in need of defense. Science gave us the atom bomb. The public was convinced after the first detonation. Science is about demonstration not hand waving and just-so stories.

I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.

Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.

—Michael Crichton, Aliens cause Global Warming [January 17, 2003 speech at the California Institute of Technology]

Comment on Conservative perspectives on climate change: Part II by Michael

$
0
0

You gave TB as your example. Clueless much?

And re:cold/flu – it is impossible to avoid air-borne viruses unless you plan to live life in a bubble – they are part of the natural environment.

Bonfire.

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by Dave Springer

$
0
0

Does Ben Santer of someone of his ilk get to make 12th hour edits again?

Comment on Conservative perspectives on climate change: Part II by jim2

$
0
0

@johanna | June 8, 2012 at 11:26 am
You are so full of it johanna. Millions of people owe there job which allows them to make a living to the rich. Your narrow, blinkered socialist vision will be the ruin of us all due to your greed and envy.

On top of that:
“”While the exact number is not known, it is reasonable to assume that there were approximately 10,000 Microsoft millionaires created by the year 2000,” said Richard S. Conway Jr., a Seattle economist whom Microsoft hired to study its impact on Washington State. “The wealth that has come to this area is staggering.” ”
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/29/business/yourmoney/29millionaire.html?pagewanted=all

“To put that in perspective, Apple now has 60,400 employees. 36,000 of those work in the retail segment; we can assume they don’t get options or RSUs. So excluding retail, Apple has about 24,400 employees. Let’s double that number, to include all the employees who have left over the years — call it 50,000 in all. $172 billion divided by 50,000 employees is $3.4 million per employee.”
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/19/how-much-do-apple-employees-earn/

n the 1990s, we loved to tally up the number of Microsoft millionaires. Now, it’s Google’s turn. The New York Times cites estimates that there are 1,000 Google employees whose stock grants and options are worth more than $5 million. So there are more than 1,000 Google millionaires, including Google’s former masseuse, Bonnie Brown.
http://techcrunch.com/2007/11/12/counting-the-google-millionaires/

Status update: I’m rich! Facebook flotation to create 1,000 millionaires among company’s rank and file

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2072204/Facebook-IPO-create-1-000-millionaires-companys-rank-file.html

Comment on Conservative perspectives on climate change: Part II by jim2

$
0
0

johanna – apologies to you!! I see you were defending capitalism. You! The one she was talking to, read my response!!

Comment on Conservative perspectives on climate change: Part II by A fan of *MORE* discourse

$
0
0

Non sequitur, Dave?   :) “Second-hand smoke is OK for kids to breath, because other things are bad for children’s health too!”

You’re right. YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

What we need is a LAW to block scientists who inconveniently speak up!

Just like skeptical denialists fantasize about!

Or at a minimum, let’s start creating Nixon-style “enemy lists”, so we can track and/or suppress these scientists!

`Cuz obviously, scientists have formed an international conspiracy to “sap and impurify” all of our precious skeptical essence, eh?  :)   :)   :)

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by Dave Springer

$
0
0

WebHubTelescope | June 8, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Reply

“They actually think that AGW is totally responsible for green technology.

You conflate alternative techologies with green technologies. If it weren’t for AGW then “green” wouldn’t be all about carbon-neutral it would be about things like deforestation, arsenic and mercury, and things of that nature. “Green” has been redefined to include CO2 emission and without ginned up CAGW fantasies it would have never happened.


Comment on Uncertainty is not your friend (?) by Wagathon

$
0
0

There could be a problem with your statistics. The warming period between Ice Ages is 8-12k years and humanity’s entire experience on Earth has taken place during the Holocene Epoch which means 11k of the 8-12k years of the latest interglacial warming epoch has already past.

Perhaps Al Gore and Michael Mann should get together and make a movie about it–e.g., An Inconvenient Truth: Some Like It Hot — That Would Be Us — And, It Ain’t ‘Gonna Last Forever (The Next Ice Age May Be Overdue) — So, We Should Just Off Ourselves Now

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by lolwot

$
0
0

Crichton is effectively making attacking strawman there, but probably not intentionally.

Science shouldn’t work by consensus, but consensus is important when reporting science.

This is perfectly valid:
“What does the science show?”
“Well the consensus of experts is that XYZ”

That is what is done. When people appeal to the consensus of climate scientists they are using consensus in the *reporting of science*

The act of science itself is not about consensus. But no-one is claiming it is.

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by lolwot

$
0
0

will deniers lie again that he did?

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by Edim

$
0
0

If a consensus forms by itself, and in high agreement with observations, after being subject to serious and very critical scrutiny – then it’s a valuable consensus. But even then, it should be open to criticism, always.

Comment on Uncertainty is not your friend (?) by David L. Hagen

$
0
0
Brian H Re: "most likely next abrupt nonlinear change would be a return to the overdue Ice Sheet condition which bounds interglacials like ours." Good observation. The greatest uncertainty is: <b>Will our descendents Fry or Freeze?</b> Climate appears to have substantially COOLED since the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum" rel="nofollow">Holocene climatic optimum.</a> Freezing has far greater dangers than warming ("frying."). We can accommodate a rise in sea level. It is much harder to grow food under glaciers. Now the key question is: <b>Can we achieve and sustain sufficient anthropogenic warming to avoid the next glaciation?</b> To decide, we must accurately understand and quantify ALL natural drivers as well as anthropogenic drivers for BOTH warming and cooling. To date IPCC models do not include major natural oscillations and cannot be validated - <a href="http://rankexploits.com/musings/2012/roy-announced-uah-june-289c/" / rel="nofollow">Lucia shows that they are running 2 sigma too warm for the last 32 years.</a> How do we discover where the models are wrong and how much?

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by John M

$
0
0

The act of science itself is not about consensus. But no-one is claiming it is.

You say tomahto, I say tomato, but I think “appeals to consensus” like this are what Crichton was referring to.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/306/5702/1686.full

I’ll let others parse and dissect as they wish.

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by lolwot

$
0
0

Because I don’t have strong political or religious beliefs. Skeptics here evidentially do (strong political beliefs) and IMO have allowed this to bias their analysis of the science to the point that they make and defend very bad arguments on the issue.

I disagree this subject is just down to opinion, as if one person can believe CO2 rise is natural and another can believe CO2 rise is due to man and both are “right”. For complex subjects that could be the case, but not for this one.

Coincidentally this “everyone is right” philosophy is what creationists advance to justify their ludicrous resistance to certain scientific subjects. With their “fairness” strategy, they argue a 6000 year old earth and a 4.5 billion year old earth are just different valid “interpretations” of the same facts.

I look at the evidence behind the CO2 rise being due to man and it’s very strong. I don’t see any room for people to reach the opposite conclusion unless they are biased.

If it was just the “CO2 rise cause” issue I might gloss over all this. But it isn’t. There are many other areas where skeptics stick to diametrically bizarre conclusions and bad arguments (there were 3 above, including the CO2 cause one).

But the icing on the cake is the contradictions, which are a classic tell of a biased approach. Contradictions form much like how a prolific liar will have trouble keeping track of all their lies and will eventually slip up.

For example the instrumental global surface temperature records show global warming. A biased individual may resist that and try to find ways it doesn’t, such as arguing that the instruments are biased, badly sited, adjusted etc.

Then when confronted with the satellite record warming, perhaps they can’t deny that, but their bias wants to find some foothold to argue from anyway, so they point at the instrumental temperature records and argue that the early 20th century saw just as fast warming as the late 20th century.

The problem is they are bending the facts to fit a conclusion they want to reach, rather than letting the conclusion follow from the facts. As a result they accidentally made a contradiction: Arguing the surface temperature record is unreliable, but then arguing it’s so reliable we can compare early 20th century and late 20th century trends.

Contradiction forming is the best sign of bias. Creationists do it too. If you approach science unbiased you fit the facts into a coherent framework and shouldn’t make such contradictions. If you bend the facts to fit a bias you easily slip up and make contradictions.


Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by lolwot

$
0
0

Yeah act dumb and dodge having to address the flaw in your bad argument

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by jim2

$
0
0

So, if this result holds up under criticism, the GCMs output, when processed in the same manner, should match the continuous spectral “background” given in the paper.

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by gbaikie

$
0
0

“However, only a very small fraction of the 0.474×10^21 J will actually remain in the earth/atmosphere system.”

How small a fraction?
Nitrogen and oxygen don’t radiate a significant amount of energy, yes?

Comment on Conservative perspectives on climate change by tempterrain

$
0
0

“Racial Socialism” ? Well I’ve never heard apartheid called that before.
And democracy is totalitarian is it? So by that score Barack Obama is a totalitarian?

It all sounds pretty dangerous talk to me. It sounds like you aren’t interested in liberty at all but you are interested in preserving your property rights. The key to the difference between real libertarianism and proprietarianism, a much better description for most so-called American libertarians, hinges on the question of authority vs. freedom. Proprietarians deny it–or are in denial about it–but their system is based on the same sources for authority as feudalism.

Under feudalism there is no, or very limited, democracy. There is no way a king can be voted off his throne. He’s got the power and the wealth and there is no shifting him unless by violent revolution. How would it be any different under your system. You’d have a minority of people who would be super rich who would be, if they aren’t already, the new aristocracy with wealth and power being passed down from generation to generation.

Of course it is desirable that there should be sufficient incentive for people to do well and achieve something by their own efforts and democracy doesn’t prevent that. However it should recognise that usually wealth is inherited just like an Earldom or a Dukedom would be. Gina Rinehart is Australia’s richest woman worth some $30 billion dollars, purely because she happens to be the daughter of Lang Hancock. We aren’t supposed to have an aristocracy in Australia, or America, but that’s not really true. Is it? But at least both countries do have a democracy to counteract that to some extent.

Comment on Week in review 6/8/12 by jim2

$
0
0

lolwot – See the paper @ steven | June 8, 2012 at 4:29 pm

It shows that CO2 lags temperature. So, I respectfully suggest you are wrong on this point.

Viewing all 148700 articles
Browse latest View live




Latest Images