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Comment on Open thread weekend by manacker

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Peter Lang

Agree that your approach is sensible.

You probably have an ally in tempterrain, as far as moving to nuclear power is concerned.

But, judging from his posts, he probably thinks a carbon tax is required to accomplish this.

And then, if Australia is anything like Germany or Switzerland, you have a general populace that’s been frightened out of its wits against imaginary nuclear hobgoblins by the same green lobby groups that are now using fear mongering to sell CAGW.

These guys are not looking for solutions – they simply want to kill the coal and nuclear industries for ideological reasons – and they want a carbon tax to throttle evil industrialization.

But lots of luck, anyway, with your endeavor to introduce some sanity into the equation.

Max


Comment on Open thread weekend by Beth Cooper

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Final correction, ’1697 -1707,’ and bonne nuit..

Comment on Open thread weekend by WebHubTelescope

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Pekka, As usual you are correct. I would much rather engage in a place such as the Azimuth blog, which is way more serious than this circus, yet that is typically quiet as everyone seems to put their nose to the grindstone. It also has threaded comments, which I rather like, and why I stay away from Real Climate and its lack of threading.

I am out of here the minute I find a place that has the right mix of activity and allows math markup and posting of charts and figures.

Comment on Open thread weekend by David Wojick

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It has been 24 hours with about 200 comments since I posted this opening comment on what is actually happening with the US government. No one has picked up the thread, rather we see a lot of abstract and theoretical arguments, which are much easier in their way. This bias for abstraction is not bad but it should be recognized. This blog is a think tank.

Comment on Uncertainty in observations of the Earth’s energy balance by David Springer

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Berényi Péter | November 9, 2012 at 4:42 pm |

“I prefer to call them Tyndall gases,”

Tyndall called infrared “calorific rays”. For consistency shouldn’t you prefer that too?

I kind of lose interest when someone wants to use his own new phrases. This was no exception.

And I certainly don’t need a lecture on John Tyndall’s work. I read the book and can, off the top of my head, describe how he constructed and operated his lab setup for measuring the properties of calorific gases.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…..

Comment on Open thread weekend by HenrikM

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Yes, that is really strange, as I understand it, what they found out is quite new and fascinating.

Comment on Open thread weekend by manacker

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Web

“a virtual war on brains”

Are you arrogant enough to think you are the only one with a “brain”?

If so,

you are not only “arrogant” – but also “ignorant”.

(And you know what Einstein said about that combination.)

Max

Comment on Open thread weekend by curryja

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“This blog is a think tank’ now that is something to ponder!


Comment on Open thread weekend by Bill

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We need now to distinguish between CC and ACC.

Comment on Open thread weekend by Michael

Comment on Open thread weekend by Jim Cripwell

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Yesterday, George Entwhistle resigned as head of the BBC. This was a result of a misreporting on Newsnight about sex abuse. It follows a similar scandal relating to sex and Sir Jimmy Saville. However, back in 2006, there was a secret meeting between the BBC and 28 unknown people where the BBC’s editorial policy on CAGW seems to have been decided.

see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20286198
and http://www.thegwpf.org/christopher-booker-david-cameron-backing-eus-green-design-energy/#

To quote from the latter
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The BBC Trust does not hide the fact that a “high-level seminar” in 2006, attended by “expert scientists”, led to the decision that the BBC should take a highly proactive line in pushing alarm over global warming, while ignoring or ridiculing anyone who dares question it. This was done in full knowledge that it ran counter to the BBC’s Charter commitment that its coverage of controversial issues must be impartial.
Everything about this seminar, held in secret at TV Centre and attended by the BBC’s top brass, was odd. It was organised by a little lobby group set up by the BBC journalist Roger Harrabin to promote the global-warming scare in the media, financed by public money and other climate pressure groups.
So obviously did the BBC do all it could to push the scare, from that time on, that a great many people asked to know who was present at the seminar and in particular the identity of the “expert scientists” on whose advice such a significant policy change was made. It did eventually emerge that one speaker at the seminar was Lord May, an unashamed climate alarmist who had just stepped down as President of the Royal Society, but no more would the BBC disclose.
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One can only hope that the inquiries which would appear to be going to happen into editorial policy at the BBC, will include some sort of investigation as to why the 2006 meeting needs to be kept so secret. Surely BBC editorial policy on CAGW needs to be investigated as well. Unfortunately the chances of this happening must be close to the value of the total climate sensitivity of CO2 as indicated by the empirical data, namely indistinguishable from zero.

Comment on Open thread weekend by Edim

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“To give it a different meaning serves only to confuse the issue; I suppose that the IPCC has been successful in that.”

Yes, it already has a meaning and it’s already happening (always has and will).

Comment on Uncertainty in observations of the Earth’s energy balance by David Springer

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I didn’t say the global conveyor belt was a heat engine but it’s certainly driven by temperature differentials directly or indirectly. Without temperature differentials there’d be no salinity change as ice wouldn’t be forming or melting so even that is indirectly temperature-driven. And some very large surface currents are driven by winds and winds are created by temperature diffentials in the atmosphere so wind driven ocean currents are indirectly due to temperature changes as well.

It’s hard to take you seriously at this point.

Comment on Uncertainty in observations of the Earth’s energy balance by David Springer

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Willis Eschenbach | November 5, 2012 at 10:45 pm | Reply

” You can have the same deck with the same sun shining down, but if you move the deck chairs into the shade you’ll find that the surface temperature will be much cooler … ”

Good one. So you’re basically saying if Mosher was sitting in the sun and became overheated he’s too stupid to move his chair into the shade.

On this point we agree. Mosher’s an imbecile.

Comment on Should scientists promote results over process? by jimmy


Comment on Should scientists promote results over process? by David Wojick

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Note that Mosher has not replied.

Comment on Should scientists promote results over process? by David Wojick

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There are scientists who say this.

Comment on Should scientists promote results over process? by David Wojick

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Wag is correctly summarizing Miscolczi who says CO2 is irrelevant due to negative hydro feedback. Try to keep up.

Comment on Should scientists promote results over process? by manacker

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Jim Cripwell

You raise a key question:

What is a “CO2 signal”?

A supporter of the CAGW premise might say: CO2 concentration has risen since measurements were installed at Mauna Loa in 1959, globally and annually averaged land and sea surface temperature has also risen since this period; since our models cannot explain this warming without attributing most of it to CO2 (plus some minor GHGs), we conclude that CO2 caused most of the observed warming, i.e. that is our observed “CO2 signal”.

Greenhouse theory tells us that CO2 is a GHG and that increased GHGs trap outgoing LW radiation, thereby leading to global warming. That is the theoretical justification for our “CO2 signal”.

The weak part of this argument is obviously the phrase “since our models cannot explain this warming without attributing most of it to CO2 (plus some minor GHGs)”, because this is an “argument from ignorance” – not “an argument from evidence”.

This is compounded by the fact that there was another (statistically indistinguishable) period of warming in the early 20th century, which the models cannot explain.

I’ve written this before, but it is the logic fallacy stated below:

1- Our models cannot explain the early 20th century warming
2- We know that most of the statistically indistinguishable late 20th century warming was caused by human GHGs (mostly CO2)
3- How do we know this?
4- Because our models cannot explain it any other way.

The “CO2 signal” remains a theoretically posited and computer generated “will o’ the wisp”.

Max

Comment on Should scientists promote results over process? by Joshua

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NGTG -

Please look at what Watts and Judith and any number of “skeptics” say also. They say that most “skeptics” don’t doubt that ACO2 is warming the climate, and that few “skeptics” doubt that.

At any rate, saying that ACO2 definitely warming the climate is not the same thing as saying that “the science is settled.” Don’t be coy. You know that “the science is settled” means that there are no questions at all to be answered – such as magnitude of influence from ACO2, or magnitude of “natural” variables. Whether or not we agree that they appropriately recognize uncertainty, virtually no scientists say that those factors are “settled.”

The mischaracterization of the “uncertainty” of what climate scientists acknowledge is a big problem in settling how best to acknowledge uncertainty. Despite Judith’s reluctance to acknowledge it, the problem is on both sides of the debate. Look at what happened when what Mojib Latif was widely mischaracterized by “skeptics.” That kind of demagoging only keeps the battle lines drawn and gets people digging their trenches deeper. The whole “They said the science was settled” meme is along the same lines of nonsense.

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