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Comment on Research ethics training by Labmunkey

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Dr Curry, it’s an interesting topic, i’ll leave the recent cliamtegate2 emails aside for a second and suggest the following:

You need to try to seperate the individual from the science. Easier said than done, but bear with me.

I was always taught that the science i’m working on is discreet from myself and as such i should do everything i can to remove myself, especially emotionally, from any work i perform. The minute you become emotionally involved in your work, you loose your objectivity and your work suffers. There are countless examples of this happening and the consequences of this, no mattter how well intentioned, are usually severe.

I find this mantra helps me: “there are no wrong answers in science.”

It’s such an empowering little phrase. No matter what you do, no matter what the results are, what they show- if you’ve worked dilligently, your data and experimental methods are sound and so too, are your conclusions- then you’ve done a good job. Even if the work only shows that you don’t have an answer, or it contradicts earlier results, it’s still good work.

This is a totally different mindset to pretty much ANY other career. With this in mind the ethical side of science is actually, very simple:
1- be honest with your data, your methods and most importantly yourself.
2- know your and your experimental limitations.
3- do not get emotionally involved.
4-check it, check it again, then check it another time.
5- if in doubt, replicate.
6- when sure of a result- do everything in your power to disprove it.

Follow those easy steps and your work will be sound and free of ethical considerations. Climate science needs no seperate ethical rules, it just needs to be brought in line with more mainstream science.


Comment on Research ethics training by Labmunkey

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Well, climategate 2′s arrived in time for christmas.

Dr curry, want to show how NOT to behave ethically in science? Show them this email:

Jones:

[FOI, temperature data]
Any work we have done in the past is done on the back of the research grants we
get – and has to be well hidden. I’ve discussed this with the main funder (US
Dept of Energy) in the past and they are happy about not releasing the original
station data.

Comment on Slaying the Greenhouse Dragon. Part IV by Bryan

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Chris Ho-Stuart
I did answer the question but I will break it down further if you are still wondering.

1. Do I believe in a two way radiative transfer process …….yes

2. What does a thermopile sensor in a pyrgeometer measure …….net flux

3. In thermodynamics what name is usually given to net flux …..heat or heat transfer
4. What do naive users of pyrgeometers think they are measuring ……backradiation, more correctly termed DLW.

5. Why is this an unwise assumption …..because the value displayed follows from a long series of assumptions any one mistake could possibly render the reading meaningless.

For instance is the SB law being applied properly and appropriately in all links of the instrument and source.
A. The source may contain solar contributions
B . The air may contain more or less water vapour
C . For a gas the SB law does not hold
D. Have the correct values of emissivities been use in the calculation
E . Circular reasoning is an acknowledged problem
F Does the calibration formula accurately respond to temperature change effects
…..and so on.
A careful read of the error reports show that if a number of pyrgeometers were at the same time and place pointed at the same object they would get an unacceptable range of readings.
To try to solve this problem a users group was set up.
They departed from the manufacturers calibration formula and devised their own(Nicks paper from about 2000)
6. What is the current situation…….. my link (above, 2006) say that the instrument can have errors of up to 17W/m2
7. Are you sure that this last report gives the upper limit for uncertainty …no.
8. I understand that the CO2 alarm figure is 1W/m2, would readings from the pyrgeometers be a basis for firm policy decisions on how much CO2 in air should be permitted…….no

Comment on Letter to the dragon slayers by Pete Ridley

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Hi Andrew (21st November at 7:10 pm), thanks for your prompt response to my comment. Only one of your four quotations appears to me not to allow John any wriggle-room. The item of direct relevance to my point was “Andrew, you illustrate superbly well why you are not a lawyer and I am. Thanks!” so I Googled it to confirm that the statement was made by “Slayer” John O’Sullivan. Nothing was picked up. Please would you be good enough to provide a link to the origin of that quotation.

As I said before (November 21, 2011 at 5:36 pm NOT TO BE SENT) “ .. Unless I am in possession of irrefutable evidence that John has said “I am a lawyer” then I am not going to say that he has done so. It’s called being sure of the facts .. ”.

You came back with your carefully considered opinion (which is of course nothing but the truth – as you see it) that “ .. I’d call you an idiot for playing such word games, but I’d only be repeating myself .. ”. Well Andrew, I’m in good company.

I see that you have repeated those four quotations for Vernon’s (Kuhns-kat) benefit and couldn’t resist throwing in your usual insults. Calm down Andrew. It is far better to debate in a rational but respectful manner. You’d have a far more positive impact if you dropped the invective and simply stuck to facts and opinions (with maybe even a little gentle flavouring of sarcasm now and again). Your determination to get to the bottom of an issue is to be commended but your manner of presentation needs some honing. Perhaps a refresher course is due. After all it is 30 years since you studied at Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. Standards in respected professions change a lot in that time, but maybe not in journalism (thinks News International scandal – http://www.economist.com/node/18958553).

I’m surprised that you haven’t been back to Lucia’s Blackboard (http://rankexploits.com/musings/2011/do-industrial-countries-absorb-co2/#comment-85992) in the last couple of days. I’m sure that they would love to hear from you again. Your name has been mentioned 94 times and you’ve only commented twice. John O’Sullivan’s has been mentioned 88 times so his ears must be burning but he hasn’t put in an appearance since his 4th comment on 17th. Maybe he’s too tied up acting as Dr. Ball’s attorney or acting as Legal Consultant at his “Slayers” unorthodox-science association Principia Scientific International (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-o-sullivan/19/6b4/84a).

Best regards, Pete Ridley.

Comment on Research ethics training by DCA

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hunter,

I have looked and that’s why I’m laughing.

Comment on Research ethics training by Latimer Alder

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Spectacular fail!

The funders are the UK and US taxpayers. The US Department of Energy may be the conduit through which Phil gets some of his spondulix from the USA but they are not the only ones with an interest.

But his accommodation, research facilities, NI contributions, salary and benefits come from the University of East Anglia, which is funded by UK taxpayers i.e me.

We already know that Phil Jones – along with Mike Mann – believes that as a ‘Climatologist’ he has been granted some special immunity from adhering to normally accepted standards of professional behaviour and integrity. And in the case of FoI – the law of the land as well.

The only remaining question for me is whether this comes from sheer academic naivete, or through an earlier flawed assessment that nobody would ever dare to catch him.

In Mann’s case, the answer is clear. The jury is still out on Jones.

Comment on Research ethics training by Latimer Alder

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Your evidence for this assertion is exactly what, please?

Comment on Research ethics training by KPO

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Not sure if this point has been touched on (385 comments) – is there an unavoidable dilemma when asking the question “what is the greater good”?


Comment on Research ethics training by Latimer Alder

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It is also an assertion of mind-numbing stupidity.

You may be right that Big Oil companies will someday discover that their primary product is scarce to find. But do you think that they will just give up? Is it faintly possible that some of the bright kiddies who were seduced by Filthy Lucre from the good universities might just have devoted a second or two’s thought from grinding the noses of the poor into th dust to think a little abut what they might do in 50 or 100 years time. And how they might get there?

100 years ago you would have predicted that a company that made bacon slicers and time clocks would have little future. Now IBM is one of the biggest technology companies in the world. It didn’t go out of business just because clockwork time clocks and punched cards went out of fashion.

Your academic stereotypes of ‘Big Business’ are founded on watching too many episodes of Dynasty and very little actual fact.

Comment on Letter to the dragon slayers by Pete Ridley

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I love this Climategate Release 2.0 extract, which relates to the discussion on the Mann-Ball-Scherr-O’Sullivan discussion “ .. Is the PCA approach robust? Are the results statistically significant? It seems to me that in the case of MBH the answer in each is no Wilson .. ” (http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/breaking-news-foia-2011-has-arrived/). I wonder if the politicians etc. will be able to whitewash this release as they did the first one. Maybe they should just cancel COP17 and find some other scam to hit us with.

Best regards, Pete Ridley

Comment on Research ethics training by RobB

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I’m not surprised. It was a deliberate effort to avoid addressing an unpalatable truth. Typical hardline warmist techique.

Comment on Research ethics training by Latimer Alder

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You might also be interested in email 2274 from the latest goldmine.

The golden bullet is that UEA do not allow individual academics to make confidentiality agreements. So even if Jones had negotiated such things (and there is absolutely no evidence beyond self-assertion that he did), he was acting beyond his authority as an employee of the university to do so.

Here’s the relevant section:
‘As you will note from points 1 & 2 of our policy; no UEA employee, except
members of our office, has the right to sign anything on behalf of the
university – the problem is that funders/other parties can be sneaky by
sending the agreement in the name of the academic.

Our policy is:-
Someone from the Commercialisation & Enterprise Team should approve and sign
all Confidentiality Agreements:
only our staff have the legal authority to sign agreements on behalf of the
University
all agreements should be between the University of East Anglia and the party
requesting the agreement (not an individual academic or school)
we will negotiate with the other party on any issues within the document that
may be contentious
by doing this we will ensure you the best protection of your IP rights
(In special circumstances, authorisation may be obtained from the
Commercialisation & Enterprise Team allowing you to sign the agreement
yourself. Such authorisation must always be obtained in advance, will only be
valid for a specific instance, and the standard university agreement must be
used without amendment – unless we have authorised an amendment)
In all cases, a copy of the fully signed confidentiality agreement must be
retained in our office’

Comment on Letter to the dragon slayers by manacker

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Dr. Grant Petty is a known expert on satellite remote sensing of the atmosphere and atmospheric radiative transfer. His letter was apparently directed specifically at the “slayers”, who questioned his specific field of expertise. However, by extension, it really applies for all those who are rationally skeptical of the “mainstream consensus” paradigm on AGW, which Judith has summarized in bullet form: <blockquote> the Earth is warming, anthropogenic CO2 is to blame, there’s a significant risk that the warming will be dangerous</blockquote> Petty admonishes the “slayers” for being uninformed and close-minded. He asserts that climate science is not <em>”some old-boys’ club, everyone covering each other’s rear”</em>, although Climategate has provided some evidence that this is at least partially true. In my personal opinion, he goes off the rails when he suggests that climate change skeptics: <blockquote> just might even feel a little shame at your roles in aggressively promoting misinformation and distrust of experts among those who aren’t equipped to tell science from pseuodoscience</blockquote> Petty describes how science should work in a perfect world, where it has not been corrupted by politics and large sums of money. <blockquote>The nature of real modern science is that fraudulent claims don’t go undetected long, because too many people are working on pieces of the same giant jigsaw puzzle, and when pieces don’t fit, they look around for the reason.</blockquote> This was certainly true in the case of the Mann et al. “hockey stick”, but it took two outsiders and a fairly long time until the errors were found and this could be corroborated. Unfortunately, the “fraudulent claims” (i.e. that <em>”the warmth of the last half century is unusual in at least the previous 1,300 years”</em>) live on in IPCC AR4 WG1 SPM (p.9). A further point raised by Grant Petty: <blockquote>only a fraction of submitted proposals get funded, and that academic scientists’ promotion and tenure depend on their getting funded</blockquote> There is the popular perception that funding often depends on conforming to the “consensus” paradigm. The perception is that those who support this paradigm get funding, those who oppose it do not. Is this true in actual fact (i.e. is “perception = reality” in this case?) The line that <em>”any moderately successful doctor or lawyer makes way more money than most climate scientists”</em> may be true, but is silly and beside the point. All in all, I found Petty’s letter too defensive (“circle the wagons?”) with a bit of the elitist approach of admonishing the unwashed idiots for daring to question the “mainstream paradigm”. If I think it was directed at me (and others who might think, as I do, that the current hysteria on AGW is exaggerated and not based on sound science), rather than just the “slayers”, then I think it over the top. But that’s just my personal opinion. Max

Comment on Research ethics training by RobB

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M Carey…… and maybe you are loathsome for calling pokerguy loathsome for calling mann loathsome. No wait…..maybe I am loathsome for calling you………
Pointless name calling will not distract attention away from the unpalatable realities of climategate 2.

Comment on Research ethics training by RobB

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and then of course there was the 10:10 video………


Comment on Research ethics training by Roger Fujii

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While I agree that an ethics course isn’t going to make saints out of anyone, it’s obvious from the antics we see in the climategate emails that ethics is completely missing in non-insignificant areas of the field.

Even in the legal profession, if the prosecution hides evidence from the defense, this is a non-trivial offense. When a researcher deliberately tries to prevent opposing views from being published, this is not ethical behavior. Period. I also agree that there really needs to be some enforcement of the rules. A question that should be asked is “what transgression would it take to make a clear case for a sanction?” If this can’t be answered, there’s no point of going any further on the ethics path.

While I don’t think climate science is unique as far as ethics level, what IS unique about it is that it is one of the few fields that has the audacity to think it can predict with any precision what will happen 100 years from now. Economists don’t (a field that resembles climate science in scope). The only things I can think of where one can rightly make predictions that far in the future are phenomenon based on relatively simple physics (like orbital mechanics, radioactive decay…). Anything on complex mechanisms are just educated guesses and should not have any more weight that that. I think part of the problem is that someone didn’t say “this is a complicated process with many variables that function over large time frames, so we really don’t know enough to make concrete statements” early enough before people gave too much weight to arguments that are not strongly supported. If you raise expectations higher than what you can deliver, be ready to pay the piper…

Comment on Research ethics training by Captain Dallas (Fish Beware!)

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That is over the top! Mann is not loathsome! He just appears to have gone Emeritus before his time :)

Comment on Research ethics training by andrew adams

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I’m happy to defer to the ICO’s ruling that the FoI request was valid, I never claimed otherwise. But it’s not true (in the legal sense) “that publically funded work HAS to be publically available for scrutiny” – the FoI act provides a number of exemptions where a request can be refused, and it’s likely that if the data had been relating to a less controversial area of science then the existence of non-disclosure agreements would have been accepted as sufficient grounds for refusing the request. I would also point out that the fact that an institution has refused a FoI request and has subsequently been overruled by the ICO does not mean that the institution necessarily acted improperly in refusing it. There will always be cases where there is genuine disagreement between those requesting the information and those holding it over whether it fals within the scoope of the FoI act.

Comment on Slaying the Greenhouse Dragon. Part IV by Bryan

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Chris Ho-Stuart asks

“Here’s my question made as simple as I can make it.

is there thermal radiation coming from the atmosphere to the surface?”

Of course there is, why would you doubt that?

“It looks to me that you are saying that pyrgeometers are actually measuring a net IR flux (which is true) ”

Yes again and this net flux is 66W/m2

The most up to date report I have says this figure is subject to an uncertainty of 17W/m2

“Remember that the atmospheric back radiation scientists are measuring is hundreds of watts per square meter.”

The figures of hundred of W/m2 you quote are speculations based on whether or not their SB calculations are being properly applied, emissivities accurately determined, temperature changes accurately followed.

What they acctually measure is 66W/m2 but they admit that this figure might be as low as 49W/m2
Many commentators whose views I respect such as G&T think the DLR figures are inflated.
There is no doubt that the vast majority of climate scientists are diligent and follow the scientific method.
However on the release of climategate 2 it appears there are some leading figures who determine IPCC policy where this cannot be assumed.
They are working to an preconceived agenda and as such regard data as something to be interpreted in such a way as to fit their agenda.
Figures can be adjusted, worst case scenarios assumed, contradictory evidence ignored.
Figures like Phil Jones and Mann (of hockeystick fame) do not fill me with confidence
Their reluctance to release data is a wake up call for any who can follow and expose their anti-scientific method.
Huge financial interests are involved.
George Soros and other hedge funds stand to lose billions if the CO2.
driven greenhouse gas theory is faulsified.
In no other branch of Physics would they accept an instument as flakey as

Comment on Research ethics training by andrew adams

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