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Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by David Springer

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Brandon Shollenberger | May 14, 2013 at 9:41 am |

“David Springer, I don’t agree with your attitude or language, but you’re right that Peter Lang is using gross generalities.”

As far as jarheads go my attitude is tame and my language like a choir boy’s. It takes all kinds to make the world go round. Write that down.

“However, you miss a bigger point: Not one of his examples has ever been implemented at a global level. ”

Nothing is implemented on a global level except death and taxes. You’re a bit of dimwit. You and Lang are like dumb and dumber. Write that down too.


Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by Brandon Shollenberger

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Peter Lang, we’re at the point where two people point fingers at each other and call the other crazy. You’re probably right that there’s no point in continuing.

I will say I think any fair minded individual reading this exchange will favor me. If nothing else, your insistence on making things personal is all sorts of lame. That, plus the fact you offered policies of a single country as proof it is possible to make international policy that benefits all countries (then ran away from the point when called out) should be enough for me to be the “winner.”

Or at least to make you look like the crazy one!

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by David Springer

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willard (@nevaudit)’ | May 14, 2013 at 12:42 pm |

>> I made you and I can unmake you too.

>Saith Chronos to Zeus.

A quote from a fantasy world. How not unexpected.

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by Brandon Shollenberger

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Wow Springer, it’s amazing you aren’t in moderation. Contentless insults, time and time again? It’s almost like you’re trying to get yourself banned.

You could at least try to be clever or funny with your insults. Or is this you trying?

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by David Springer

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Chief Hydrologist | May 14, 2013 at 2:13 am | Reply

“That’s not surprising Max – the Aussie rhyming slang for Yanks is septic tanks. Listening to you it is easy to see why.”

American rhyming slang for Australians is dickheads. I know it doesn’t rhyme but we are more concerned with accuracy than with alliteration.

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by David Springer

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You’re passive aggressive, Brandon. That’s like me only no balls.

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by Peter Lang

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Brandon,

Your comments have been meaningless babble from the start. You accuse me of all the things you do yourself and did from the first comment. If you’d wanted to have a rational debate, you would not have begun as you did, nor continue as you have.

The only way I would be interested in engaging with you is if you are prepared to show you genuinely understand the policy approach I’ve been advocating – i.e. state in your own words what you understand I have been advocating. If you did that honestly, and demonstrate you understand, then we may have a basis to begin a discussion.

Once you have demonstrated you understand what I’ve been advocating, I might be interested in moving to the next stage where you clarify what I was seeking from the start, which is:

1. Can you state whether or not you accept requirement #1 and if not, please explain why not.

2. Can you state whether or not you accept requirement #2 and if not, please explain why not.

But that is a later step.

[If you want to argue about basics economic concepts such as free trade and the other examples I gave of polices where ‘everyone’ is a winner (more correctly the overwhelming majority are winners), then please accept that I am not interested in discussing what I see as basic concepts here.]

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by phatboy

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Ok, I’ll put it differently – how many climate scientists started out as alarmists, but subsequently changed to sceptics once they had attained an advanced age?


Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by pokerguy

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Well hell Beth, at least you knew who he was. I had to look him up.

As to Leo and his friends, not sure you caught my last progress report in answer to an earlier query. Copied and pasted below just in case (with a correction or two):

“I’m honored to be writing for SU-g in any capacity, and in preparation am reading all the Tolstoy I can find. Except “War and Peace.” I want to get this written before the next ice age kicks in after all. Fortunately I read Anna K. last year, so we’re covered there. Levin should play a big part it seems to me, in all such matters. To get myself in an even better frame, I’ve been running around town looking for someone dying of a mysterious kidney ailment, who wouldn’t mind putting his legs up on my shoulders.

(In answer to your question about geography)..We’re just outside Boston, Beth. And we don’t see enough theater. That must be corrected. I need to stay sharp if I’m going to remain a serf…”

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by phatboy

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How about simple arithmetic?
Up until about 3 decades ago there were comparatively very few people in climatology and associated disciplnes, and that number has mushroomed since.
So the young guys are going to outnumber the old guys by a long way

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by Pekka Pirilä

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The article of David Roberts seriously misrepresents the case, or at least one central aspect of it. He writes

It’s worse than that, though. Solar power peaks at midday, which means it is strongest close to the point of highest electricity use — “peak load.” Problem is, providing power to meet peak load is where utilities make a huge chunk of their money. Peak power is the most expensive power. So when solar panels provide peak power, they aren’t just reducing demand, they’re reducing demand for the utilities’ most valuable product.

That’s all his invention, nothing along that line is written in the EEI report that he uses as his source and that’s the opposite of the truth. Providing peak power causes the highest cost to the utility but does not lead to similarly higher income with the present tariffs. The EEI article is discussing the need for changes in tariff structure and the whole idea of those proposed changes is to make the tariff more cost-representative, i.e. to add to the fixed part as payment for the service of providing power as needed, ant to take off from the part proportional to the energy sold.

This is exactly the point a wrote about in a recent comment here. Noticing this obvious error, I first checked the report and found out that it’s not from there. Then I looked at the discussion and found a comment making the correct point (written by Rosemarie Radford).

This is all too typical. People have totally false thoughts about the energy system. They don’t understand at all what’s required to get energy at the right time and the right point and reliably enough. Batteries may, one day, change the situation, but that’s not near, and there may be problems in securing raw materials to all those batteries.

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by Pekka Pirilä

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Max OK

Having myself retired a couple of years ago and knowing well many older people I cannot accept at all the idea that it would be typical to elderly to rationalize that they do not need to worry what’s coming at the time they are probably dead.

You may think that such a behavior would be rational, but do you really think that people follow such a rationale?

I would rather think that the elderly have a tendency of putting more weight on the long term issues than younger. Perhaps the perspective is roughly proportional to the length of own personal history.

The main differences come, however, certainly from attitudes little related to the age of the person.

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by WebHubTelescope (@WHUT)

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As usual, I won’t get into an opinion discussion, just relating the facts. The EEI utility-sponsored report said:
” While tariff restructuring can be used to mitigate lost revenues, the longer-term threat of fully exiting from the grid (or
customers solely using the electric grid for backup purposes) raises the potential for irreparable damages to revenues and growth prospects. This suggests that an old -line industry with 30-year cost recovery of investment is vulnerable to cost-recovery threats from disruptive forces.”

I only wonder why would they print that and risk creating a bandwagon effect of more customers going off the grid?

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by AK

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<blockquote>Face it, the government is providing subsidies in research that may turn the tables on the major providers. The utilities are running scared</blockquote> Thank you for the link, although I agree with Pekka that "[T]<i>he article of David Roberts seriously misrepresents the case</i>". It's also important to read the <a href="http://grist.org/climate-energy/how-can-we-boost-distributed-solar-and-save-utilities-at-the-same-time/" rel="nofollow">follow-on piece</a>, where he says: <blockquote>EEI’s concern is what it should be: how the industry and regulators can act quickly in the short term to protect utilities, to give them room to develop a long-term strategy for grappling with the rapid spread of distributed energy. However, it’s not clear why protecting utility shareholders ought to outrank other social goals. EEI’s recommendations should be taken with a grain of salt.</blockquote> As always, the situation's always less simple (simplistic) the more you dig into the details. For me, however, the key takeaway, and the reason I'm grateful for the link, is this from the <a href="http://www.eei.org/ourissues/finance/Documents/disruptivechallenges.pdf" rel="nofollow">original report</a>: <blockquote>The decline in the price of PV panels from $3.80/watt in 2008 to $0.86/watt in mid-2012[1]</blockquote> Assuming their "2008" represents a mid-year point like their "mid-2012", this adds up to a price decline of 0.475 in two years, roughly equivalent to cutting the price in half in two years. Now, many people are familiar with <a title="wiki" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law" rel="nofollow">Moore's"law"</a>, which can be paraphrased that "the price of computing power is cut in half every 18 months". Can we project a similar law (with perhaps a 2 year period) for PV? Off the top of my head I'd say yes. Of course, I haven't checked the ref in the paper, nor yet dug into the relevant technology in detail, but the primary cost of bulk semiconductor is ultra-pure silicon, and AFAIK that purity is achieved with zone-refining, which is certainly a technology that could respond to strong R&D, either from subsidies or market-driven investment. Given such a "law", in 20 years we could expect the cost of PV to be around a dollar a kilowatt (in today's dollars). Is there really any need to <b>temporarily</b> raise the price/cost of energy if the problem's going to be solved in 20 years anyway?

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by Beth Cooper

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Yer don’t need ter read ALL of Tolstoy, Pokerguy,
yer a gambler and yer a deep guy, yer know the
odds ..use that intuition yerv’e used on the circuit .. .
jest wing it .You are the lead article in the first edition
fer the lit -er -ary section… think of all those composers
like Mozart, living through inclement weather, years
of epidemics, plague and famine, pre Industrial
Revolution, life expectancy 30 years ,… who had ter
come up with the goods pronto.
Beth the serf.


Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by DocMartyn

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Monty Python on Doug Piranha

Interviewer Doug?

Vercotti Doug. I was terrified of him. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I’ve seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.

Interviewer What did he do?

Vercotti He used sarcasm.
He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire.

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by HR

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Joshua I read this article as the guys ‘coming out’ speech. As such it covers many topics . The science as well as the wider political context. The idea that every point is going to be worked through as if it’s a paper would be ridiculous. Michael Mann and others tweet about climate science, are you going to tell me they fully encapsulate a scientific argument in 140 characters? You can see when he touches on subjects that are closer to his professional experience he elaborates well. It’s always struck me as rather pointless to be arguing about what isn’t in an article than trying to understand what is.

Think on Joshua this is what consensus science is all about. You are asking thousands of scientists to have an opinion on subjects that they have no in depth experience about when their expertise is only in a small slither of the subject. Sweeping, less than well-informed opinion about everything is the norm for climate scientists in the present circumstances. So the guy is playing the game everybody else is, big deal.

Joshua you seem to read this article in order to identify debating points rather than to try and better inform yourself. If you were truly interested in getting more detail on a particular subject you could go ask a question over at Die klimazwiebel, he seems to be responding there but I suspect that really all your interested in is trying to discredit this article,

Comment on Pasteur’s quadrant by David Wojick

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Yes Maxok, most basic research is government funded and done at universities. How could it be otherwise?

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by Edim

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson on global climate change by Edim

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“We have explained over and over again that CO2 GHG forcing ACCUMULATES year-after-year while the heat from CO2 combustion DISSIPATES every year.”

That’s nonsense!

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