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Comment on Disaster economics by gbaikie

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“NEW ORLEANS—Things are looking up for this city. Partly, that’s because anything is an improvement over the post-Katrina hellscape. But from tragedy arose opportunity: New Orleans has used the hurricane recovery effort to confront some of its longtime political, economic, and social pathologies—the problems that seemed to leave it on the bottom of those worst-in-the-country lists.”
http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-economy/america360/how-new-orleans-pulled-off-an-economic-miracle-20130408

Though there is corruption involved, it seems to me if one is only comparing disaster relief to other government stimulus ie, “shovel ready jobs” [or bailing out banks cause they are too big to fail] then disaster relief would tend to do lot better. As things actually are done, and there is a lot public attention on ensuring the money is not squandered- there is more media attention and more political costs associated with wasting disaster relief.

So, in summary what Detroit needs a major natural disaster of some kind.

But I doubt the people of Detroit were clever enough to build their city so it’s under sea level.


Comment on Disaster economics by Faustino

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“New Orleans has used the hurricane recovery effort to confront some of its longtime political, economic, and social pathologies … In some cases, the city started from scratch: After laying off every single public school teacher, the city charterized 88 percent of the school system, and has won impressive (if early) results.”

The Mancur Olson paradigm in practice.

Comment on Ocean acidification discussion thread by Chief Hydrologist

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An acid/base reaction in seawater

CaCO3 + 2HCl → CaCl2 + CO2 + H2O – as the perhaps the primary reaction.

The CO2 I assume goes back into the atmosphere. Why you get bubbles when reacting an acid with an alkali in cake.

You presume this reaction continues until there is no more acid or no more base. It is one way – the acid stalks around until it eats a base.

There is a great mass of calcium carbonate lost to the seafloor.

‘Calcareous ooze is ooze that is composed of at least 30% of the calcareous microscopic shells—also known as tests—of foraminifera, coccolithophores, and pteropods. This is the most common pelagic sediment by area, covering 48% of the world ocean’s floor. This type of ooze accumulates on the ocean floor at depths above the carbonate compensation depth. It accumulates more rapidly than any other pelagic sediment type, with a rate that varies from 0.3 – 5 cm / 1000 yr.’ Wikipedia

Some 20% to 80% of those losses are dissolved and recycled in surface water before the rest sinks out of sight.

It seems far more likely that calcium carbonate sinks will diminish before the mechanisms that maintain carbonate super-saturation in surface waters falter. Perhaps there are mechanisms as well for bringing the calcareous ooze back to the surface. There is an article I linked to above that posits a role for larger critters in ocean nutrient dynamics.

Comment on Disaster economics by GaryM

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I know one way to have a profitable disaster. Combine the UNFCCC COP meeting with the Democrat Party convention in 2016 on some remote Caribbean island, and hit the site with a cat 5 hurricane.

Talk about creative destruction.

Comment on Ocean acidification discussion thread by Chief Hydrologist

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Hard to know where to begin Eli. I was using it as an example of lime chemistry in seawater – not as a proposal for geoengineering.

Read my lips – there is plenty of calcium carbonate in the oceans, dissolving calcium carbonate – i.e.

CaCO3 + 2HCl → CaCl2 + CO2 + H2O – as the perhaps the primary reaction – increases pH and dissolution of calcium carbonate is far more likely to effect dead critters than live ones with all their protective mechanisms for naturally variable environments.

I guess I have to write shorter comments with no science. I will be just like you then.

Comment on Ocean acidification discussion thread by Chief Hydrologist

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Oh no – that’s right – I need to be patronizing and snarky as well.

Comment on The IPCC’s alteration of Forster & Gregory’s model-independent climate sensitivity results by Anonymous

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Excellent confident analytical eye pertaining to fine detail
and can anticipate problems just before they will happen.

Comment on UK Met Office on the pause by Alexander Biggs

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JohnS: Further to my reply to your more specific objections (thank you). The bottom of the oceans approaches temperature 4C because that is the maximum density of water. The haline circulation of higher density water containing more salt will tend to go to the bottom, pushing the tamperature profile of the water above to a higher level. Thus the temperature of the surface water in the southern oceans is raised, in turn raising atmospheric temperature. That is a major way that heat is moved from the N to the S Hemisphere, although the process may take many years. That is why I think the second period of temperature rise (1970 to about 2000) may be just a rerun of the first (1940 to 1970). Also to be considered is that transport delay is different from inertial delay althogh the result may be similar. They differ in diagnosis because an inertial delay would have opposed the 1940 to 1970 fall in temperature, while a transport delay would have no such affect..


Comment on UK Met Office on the pause by Bart R

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David Springer | July 24, 2013 at 4:37 pm |

What are you, five years old?

I don’t mind being insulted, especially by someone whose only mode of address is Tourette-like, but you’d think after all the practice some measure of competence at the art of insult might sink in.

Are you really going to let the Australians out-insult you by such a large margin? Heck, even the Swedes, or Swiss, or whatever, outpunch you. And you from Buffalo, too. Tch. Such a disappointment.

manacker | July 24, 2013 at 5:49 pm |

You’ve got your analogy backwards.

I can see Santa Claus all over the place every December.

Doesn’t mean I wait for a geriatric in boots and beard to slide down the chimney with a bag of toys every year.

stevepostrel | July 24, 2013 at 10:35 pm |

I only count five flips, since 2007, and still up in the air on the sixth.

Oh. Wait. It flipped heads in 2007, and you missed it?

Here. Let’s remind you:

http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4gl/mean:191/mean:193/from:1910/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:2006/to:2007.33/plot/hadcrut4gl/last:384/trend

Do you see Santa’s big green bag of toys?

Comment on Disaster economics by Beth Cooper

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Faustino,

I always thought, from cursory readings on The Marshall Plan,
that here was an exception ter the negative effects of large
scale economic intervention projects. In the decimation of
entire countries after WW11 it helped those in immediate
desperate need and was a benevolent action in hard times,
no matter how hard headed the political thinking behind it.
And politically it undercut the opportunities fer fascist post
war propoganda … used ter maximum effect after WW1. Did
the social and political benefits out weigh the economic costs
ter WW11 victors? Perhaps you have a recommended reading
on this Faustino.

Bts

Comment on UK Met Office on the pause by Bart R

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Beth Cooper | July 24, 2013 at 7:09 am |

Who do you think more likely to have read Plato, a bunch of Philosophy students like McIntyre and Monckton, or a bunch of Earth Sciences graduates?

Who more likely to regard themselves as Gold nobles with a duty to lie, men who believe they belong in the House of Lords and Right Stuff acolytes of Stevenson’s obsolete oceanographic dabblings, or James Hansen and Michael Mann, who dress and talk like Iron peasants?

The noble liars? I’d think Inhofe and Cuccinelli stand four square believing they have every right to lie to America to get their way.

Why turn to works of fiction and politics to talk about data, inference and science? Are you allergic to fact and logic?

Comment on Disaster economics by Jim D

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Gustav (2008) and Isaac (2012) have disrupted Republican Conventions twice in a row now. They are the ones on a streak.

Comment on Disaster economics by Faustino

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Detroit is in urgent need of disaster economics. No hurricane needed. Mancur Olson paradigm needed here too: Here’s Daniel Hannan’s take:

Statism is turning America into Detroit – Ayn Rand’s Starnesville come to life
By Daniel Hannan US politics Last updated: July 21st, 2013

You thought Atlas Shrugged was fiction? Look at this description of Detroit from today’s Observer:

What isn’t dumped is stolen. Factories and homes have largely been stripped of anything of value, so thieves now target cars’ catalytic converters. Illiteracy runs at around 47%; half the adults in some areas are unemployed. In many neighbourhoods, the only sign of activity is a slow trudge to the liquor store.

Now have a look at the uncannily prophetic description of Starnesville, a Mid-Western town in Ayn Rand’s dystopian novel, Atlas Shrugged. Starnesville had been home to the great Twentieth Century Motor Company, but declined as a result of socialism:

A few houses still stood within the skeleton of what had once been an industrial town. Everything that could move, had moved away; but some human beings had remained. The empty structures were vertical rubble; they had been eaten, not by time, but by men: boards torn out at random, missing patches of roofs, holes left in gutted cellars. It looked as if blind hands had seized whatever fitted the need of the moment, with no concept of remaining in existence the next morning. The inhabited houses were scattered at random among the ruins; the smoke of their chimneys was the only movement visible in town. A shell of concrete, which had been a schoolhouse, stood on the outskirts; it looked like a skull, with the empty sockets of glassless windows, with a few strands of hair still clinging to it, in the shape of broken wires.
Beyond the town, on a distant hill, stood the factory of the Twentieth Century Motor Company. Its walls, roof lines and smokestacks looked trim, impregnable like a fortress. It would have seemed intact but for a silver water tank: the water tank was tipped sidewise.

They saw no trace of a road to the factory in the tangled miles of trees and hillsides. They drove to the door of the first house in sight that showed a feeble signal of rising smoke. The door was open. An old woman came shuffling out at the sound of the motor. She was bent and swollen, barefooted, dressed in a garment of flour sacking. She looked at the car without astonishment, without curiosity; it was the blank stare of a being who had lost the capacity to feel anything but exhaustion.

“Can you tell me the way to the factory?” asked Rearden.

The woman did not answer at once; she looked as if she would be unable to speak English. “What factory?” she asked.

Rearden pointed. “That one.”

“It’s closed.”

Now here’s the really extraordinary thing. When Ayn Rand published those words in 1957, Detroit was, on most measures, the city with the highest per capita GDP in the United States.

The real-life Starnesville, like the fictional one, decayed slowly, then collapsed quickly. I spent a couple of weeks in Detroit in 1991. The city was still functioning more or less normally, but the early signs of decomposition were visible. The man I was staying withn, a cousin of my British travelling companion, ran a bar and restaurant. He seemed to my teenage eyes to be the embodiment of the American dream: he had never been to college, but got on briskly and uncomplainingly with building a successful enterprise. Still, he was worried. He was, he told me, one of a shrinking number of taxpayers sustaining more and more dependents. Maybe now, he felt, was the time to sell up, while business was still good.

He wasn’t alone. The population of Motown has fallen from two million to 700,000, and once prosperous neighbourhoods have become derelict. Seventy six thousand homes have been abandoned; estate agents are unable to shift three-bedroom houses for a dollar.

The Observer, naturally, quotes a native complaining that ‘capitalism has failed us,’ but capitalism is the one thing the place desperately needs. Detroit has been under Leftist administrations for half a century. It has spent too much and borrowed too much, driving away business and becoming a tool of the government unions.

Of Detroit’s $11 billion debt, $9 billion is accounted for by public sector salaries and pensions. Under the mountain of accumulated obligations, the money going into, say, the emergency services is not providing services but pensions. Result? It takes the police an hour to respond to a 911 call and two thirds of ambulances can’t be driven. This is a failure, not of the private sector, but of the state. And, even now, the state is fighting to look after its clients: a court struck down the bankruptcy application on grounds that ‘will lessen the pension benefits of public employees’.

Which brings us to the scariest thing of all. Detroit could all too easily be a forerunner for the rest of the United States. As Mark Steyn puts it in the National Review:

Like Detroit, America has unfunded liabilities, to the tune of $220 trillion, according to the economist Laurence Kotlikoff. Like Detroit, it’s cosseting the government class and expanding the dependency class, to the point where its bipartisan “immigration reform” actively recruits 50–60 million low-skilled chain migrants. Like Detroit, America’s governing institutions are increasingly the corrupt enforcers of a one-party state — the IRS and Eric Holder’s amusingly misnamed Department of Justice being only the most obvious examples. Like Detroit, America is bifurcating into the class of “community organizers” and the unfortunate denizens of the communities so organized.

Oh dear. No wonder the president would rather talk about Trayvon Martin. If you want to see Obamanomics taken to its conclusion, look at Starnesville. And tremble.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100227375/obamanomics-is-turning-america-into-detroit-ayn-rands-starnesville-come-to-life/?fb

Comment on Disaster economics by Faustino

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Sorry, Beth, no recommendations, but the MP might be a rare example of large-scale government intervention paying off. Of course, the circumstances which prompted it were extreme.

Comment on Disaster economics by WebHubTelescope (@whut)

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As for the villager Bill, I am not pushing anything, I am just reporting that this subject has been researched.


Comment on Disaster economics by Faustino

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Mark Steyn’s take on Detroit is at http://www.nationalreview.com/article/353959/downfall-detroit-mark-steyn . A quote:

So, late on Friday, some genius jurist struck down the bankruptcy filing. Judge Rosemarie Aquilina declared Detroit’s bankruptcy “unconstitutional” because, according to the Detroit Free Press, “the Michigan Constitution prohibits actions that will lessen the pension benefits of public employees.” Which means that, in Michigan, reality is unconstitutional.

Time for Mancur Olson …

Comment on The IPCC’s alteration of Forster & Gregory’s model-independent climate sensitivity results by Anonymous

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Excellent enthusiastic analytical vision just for fine detail and may anticipate complications before
they will happen.

Comment on Arctic time bomb (?) by maksimovich

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The Pliocene paradox is that temperatures were substantively higher then the present and Co2 was lower ( there is a large spread in the range of around 310-380ppm) not a good anthropocentric argument.

Comment on Arctic time bomb (?) by David Springer

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http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/arctic-methane-credibility-bomb/?_r=2

Note Gavin Schmidt’s series of tweets making exactly the same points I did about ice cores and Eemian temperature.

I swear to all that’s holy I did not read Gavin’s comments before making mine. It should be how any informed individual disputes the notion of runaway methane release from melting clathrates. And it should only take a moment’s reflection on it to form the rebuttal.

Comment on Arctic time bomb (?) by thisisnotgoodtogo

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Does the person who wins the ice free summer game become instant guru to the stars?

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