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Comment on Week in review by Max_OK, Citizen Scientist

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Waggy, Webster’s defines ad homien as

“of an argument or reaction) arising from or appealing to the emotions and not reason or logic.”

It was not an appeal to emotions nor was it illogical to point out you conflated your two paragraphs with the Rothman quotation. I suspect you conflated to leave the impression Rothman agrees with what you said in those paragraphs. Alert readers recognize conflation and associate it with misrepresentation. That’s why I asked why you want readers to distrust you.

BTW, learning what a word means before using it is always a good idea.


Comment on Week in review by Generalissimo Skippy

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The Earth gains 179 PW of energy constantly. Some of it is reflected – some of it is absorbed and re-emitted creating tropics and temperate zones. The poetry of climate – warm seas and warm skies – or shivering under lowering skies.

Weather

Horrible Weather
Staying in bed weather
Cuddling up close weather
Ignoring the world weather

Warm Weather
Go for swim weather
Take a walk weather
Picnic weather
– Alison Smith

The wet season just hit in my neck of the woods – not ten minutes ago. God knows we can use the rain.

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Comment on Week in review by Don Monfort

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Get real, Pekka. Climate science, as practiced by the climate consensus establishment, is about finding confirmation for CAGW and genning up fear. And don’t forget to bring along some green toadies from the BBC and Guardian.

http://www.spiritofmawson.com/the-science-case/

“The scale of Antarctica and the Southern Ocean is staggering. Over 98% of the continent is submerged by three large ice sheets that drown the underlying topography. The Australasian sector is dominated by the East Antarctic Ice Sheet, the largest of three ice sheets that contains enough freshwater to raise the world’s sea level by some 52 metres. Until recently it was thought this ice sheet was stable, sitting on the continental crust above today’s sea level. However there is an increasing body of evidence, including by the AAE members, that have identified parts of the East Antarctic which are highly susceptible to melting and collapse from ocean warming.”

The ice sheet gonna slide off and it gonna melt and drown us all. If we hadn’t got stuck and needed rescue by responsible professionals, we woulda proved it.

http://notrickszone.com/2014/01/03/expedition-communication-director-alvin-stone-climate-warming-led-to-the-vessels-awkward-predicament/

Our boat got stuck because of global warming. We didn’t see it coming. It’s worse than we thought.

Comment on Week in review by Pekka Pirilä

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JHC,

It’s likely that there were both larger ice sheets and pack ice between those sheets. If the sheets are too thick to break through an attempt is made to sail in open sea between them, but those areas are not fully open but contain smaller pieces of ice. When the large sheets get closer to each other the smaller pieces start to form pack ice which may pile up to well more than 10 meters of ice. Getting through that requires much more power than those ships have.

Most of the Finnish icebreakers built for the Baltic have propellers also at front to help in breaking the pack ice formations even in shallower places where the ice may extend all the way to bottom, but that’s not necessary or optimal for polar icebreakers which operate almost always in deep sea. They need a lot of power and adjustable propellers to produce a great trust both forwards and backwards to avoid getting stuck.

Comment on Week in review by Pekka Pirilä

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Don,

The whole world is not as obsessed with AGW (for or against) as one might think following climate blogs.

Everything that I have read on this expedition outside climate blogs tells that climate science was a minor issue in the rationale.

Comment on Week in review by Pekka Pirilä

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On the meaning of <i>pack ice</i> Wikipedia notes: <blockquote> The term pack ice is used either as a synonym to drift ice, or to designate drift ice zone in which the floes are densely packed. </blockquote> What I had in mind is the second meaning. That's common both in northernmost Baltic Sea and in polar regions.

Comment on Week in review by Max_OK, Citizen Scientist

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Gosh, I replied to a post that disappeared while I was preparing my reply. A ghost post! That’s pretty funny.

Comment on Week in review by Generalissimo Skippy

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A vigorous spectrum of interdecadal internal variability presents numerous challenges to our current understanding of the climate. First, it suggests that climate models in general still have difficulty reproducing the magnitude and spatiotemporal patterns of internal variability necessary to capture the observed character of the 20th century climate trajectory. Presumably, this is due primarily to deficiencies in ocean dynamics. Moving toward higher resolution, eddy resolving oceanic models should help reduce this deficiency. Second, theoretical arguments suggest that a more variable climate is a more sensitive climate to imposed forcings (13). Viewed in this light, the lack of modeled compared to observed interdecadal variability (Fig. 2B) may indicate that current models underestimate climate sensitivity. Finally, the presence of vigorous climate variability presents significant challenges to near-term climate prediction (25, 26), leaving open the possibility of steady or even declining global mean surface temperatures over the next several decades that could present a significant empirical obstacle to the implementation of policies directed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions (27). However, global warming could likewise suddenly and without any ostensive cause accelerate due to internal variability. To paraphrase C. S. Lewis, the climate system appears wild, and may continue to hold many surprises if pressed.
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/38/16120.full

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/38/16120/F3.expansion.html

Shall we bring together all of the most critical ideas in contemporary climate science? The warming from greenhouse gases is at most 0.08 degrees C/decade, no one is predicting strong warming over the next the next decade or so at least – except the partisans of the climate war – above all that climate is wild and that climate shifts – plural – are inevitable this century? Well almost all – sensitivity in a wild climate is γ in the Michael Ghil schematic.

http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/Chief_Hydrologist/media/Ghil_fig11_zpse58189d9.png.html?sort=3&o=57

http://www.atmos.ucla.edu/tcd/PREPRINTS/Math_clim-Taipei-M_Ghil_vf.pdf

Of course science has ceased long ago to have any bearing on the peurile banter that passes for discourse here.


Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by Pekka Pirilä

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Getting a message through and having a change of affecting people reluctant to accept the message is greatly enhanced by discussing arguments in both directions. That must be done sincerely, because cheating in that fails rather sooner than later.

Keeping a site like this active may set different requirements. We have many sites where the host is the king od perhaps less often the queen. Others can ask questions within some limits, but are not allowed to compete in authority with the host. Many people seem to ask that Judith would move to that direction, but then we would soon have just one more site like many others, and with much less activity than this one.

Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by Bob Ludwick

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@ Andrew Adams

“Firstly, if “natural warming” is the null hypothesis how does one falsify it? ”

First, be clear about the hypothesis: ACO2 is driving the TOE upward at an unprecedented rate and if action is not taken to control ACO2, the consequences will be catastrophic. (If that is NOT the hypothesis, then why the weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth, and demands that governments establish a world-wide ‘climate policy’, designed to use taxes, regulations, and multiple variations on the ever-popular income redistribution theme to drastically CURTAIL ACO2?)

The null hypothesis is that climate is doing pretty much what it has always done–changing, and, until it does something out of character, we should leave it alone and do something useful with our time, energy, and money.

The null hypothesis can be falsified by demonstrating that TOE has climbed well above the bounds of its historical range (not small fractions of a degree) during periods with no arguable ACO2 signature, that the rise in the TOE is highly correlated with ACO2 emissions, AND there is convincing evidence that an increase in the TOE of a few degrees, amortized over a couple hundred years, represents a catastrophe that requires us, in the here and now, to take heroic measures to prevent it..

Citing the output of Climate Models whose only socially redeeming feature is that they provide textbook examples of the ‘GIGO Principle’ won’t do the trick.

Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by Wagathon

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<em>CO2 is not the problem… the Greenhouse Effect is present but essentially constant over time, therefore temperature variations are due to some other cause… If you want to block light coming through a window a single coat of black paint will stop almost all of it. Second and third coats reduce the light but by decreasing fractions. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is like the first coat of paint – doubling and tripling the amount reduces heat going to space by decreasing fractions. The IPCC got around this problem by incorrectly claiming a positive feedback. This says increased CO2 raises global temperature that increases evaporation of water vapor to the atmosphere. This supposedly enhances the warming due to increased CO2, but the idea is now discredited.</em> (Dr. Tim Ball)

Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by Dr Norman Page

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Skippy I’m pleased that you agree with me that models are useless for climate forecasting you say
“The outputs of models are intrinsically unable to resolve within the limits an unknown range.”
This I clearly understand. You also say
“In sum, a strategy must recognize what is possible”
What you fail to understand is that there are recurring patterns both in the temperature and possible driver data which can be a guide to the future because they can be recognized at various frequencies in the geological record over long periods of time..
My approach recognizes what is possible by carefully reconstructing past recurring patterns in the climate system which can, as a practical matter, be projected ahead with some confidence eg the Milankovitch cycles, solar activity cycles at decadal, centennial and millennial scales and ocean system patterns eg PDO, AMO etc which also appear to have quasi periodic regularities. You do not need to know or be able to calculate the physical processes controlling all these patterns -simply have a reasonable understanding of the timing and amplitudes of their past occurrences.

Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by R. Gates, Skeptical Warmist

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“Cold invading the US from the Arctic was a regular occurrence in the 70s. We had week long spells of cold like this, in numerous years. Of course there was no PR firm around to poll test a term like “Polar vortex” to support a political agenda.”
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Nor did we have the extensive satellite coverage that could actually measure and visualize this term call “Polar Vortex”. It is a real and physical, measurable dynamic. There is nothing politcial about it, but it seems certain people must see everything through their blue and red colored glasses. Extremely myopic!

Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by Wagathon

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‘THE major change’ you mention is what is known as UHI (Urban Heat Island) and is the reason why the ‘official’ thermometers have a systemic warming bias. UHI is the reason all land-based temperature measurements are unreliable. Simply move the official thermometer to the countryside and there is no warming (there has been no warming in the White mountains of California in 100 years nor any actual warming in France in more than 50 years. That is how regional you the warming you are talking about really is–e.g., a French airport in the winter is warmer than the surrounding countryside because the tarmac is continually and cleared of snow and a lot of jet fuel is burned there: that’s the end of story until you place an official thermometer at the airport and then base government claims of global warming on ‘warmer’ winter temperatures.

Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by lolwot

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Dr Curry you haven’t taken into account the extra years since AR4. Extra years = higher GHG level

1) 0.6C warming with a 90ppm CO2 rise (AR4)
vs
2) 0.6C with a 100ppm CO2 rise (AR5)

Which must a higher proportion of warming due to CO2? #2!

Worth repeating what Jim D pointed out:

“I think the increased confidence comes from the fact that even the low-end sensitivity of 1.5 C per doubling now accounts for more than half the warming of 0.67 C since 1950, and that is with just the CO2 increase, forgetting aerosols.”

and:
“”People who accept the 1.5 C sensitivity mathematically have to accept that CO2 has caused about 75% of the warming since 1950, and should not be surprised by the confidence level.”"


Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by lolwot

Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by Generalissimo Skippy

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The ARGO software – http://www.argo.ucsd.edu/Marine_Atlas.html – provides the data as temperatures. Thus you can get temperature profiles – etc.

Or in this case temperature anomalies – http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/Chief_Hydrologist/media/5b9238d6-531c-4bdf-8428-0a8dc2ef4488_zpse867aa58.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

The ARGO floats use a thermistor to measure temperature.

e.g. http://www.kitronik.co.uk/resources/understanding-electronics/how-a-thermistor-works

The energy content is related to the temperature.

e.g. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sensible-heat-storage-d_1217.html

webby never misses a chance to be sneeringly condescending – and is usually superficially irrelevant and wrong. I guess he means that water expands when heated. It is as simple as that.

Comment on Week in review by Mi Cro

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You absolutely can power a steel plant on solar, if …….

Lot’s of if’s there, but yes you can make steel with solar, if you don’t care that your electricity is 2-4 times the cost.
You would need to output of a whole solar farm if you were supplying the power to go from in ground ore to finished product (26GJ/ton)

Comment on IPCC AR5 weakens the case for AGW by Generalissimo Skippy

Comment on Antarctic sea ice saga by JCH

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<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-08/ships-freed-from-antarctic-ice/5189760" rel="nofollow">free at last?</a>
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