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Comment on Lennart Bengtsson resigns from the GWPF by Matthew R Marler

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Jan Perlewitz: What are you babbling about? There is still no empirical-statistical evidence for the alleged “pause”/”hiatus”/”stop”, or whatever you want to call it, of global warming .

That may be your take on the substantial statistical evidence, but most of the mainstream climatologists promoting AGW are busy developing explanations for the “pause”; such as a dramatic switch (with no substantiated mechanism but several hypotheses, obviously ad hoc) at about 1998 whereby the atmospheric CO2 started to warm the deep ocean instead of the troposphere and surface.


Comment on Lennart Bengtsson resigns from the GWPF by steven

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Joseph, if you would be so kind as to detail which organizations you consider alarmist I’m sure we can find out. If you think none are I don’t see this conversation bearing any fruit.

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson resigns from the GWPF by philjourdan

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson resigns from the GWPF by Scott Basinger

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So I guess you’d probably agree, then, that the folks involved in Climategate deserved everything that they had coming to them too?

Et tu, hypocrite?

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson resigns from the GWPF by philjourdan

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You have your sides backwards. You and your ilk are defending McCarthyism. You seek to excuse it with lame excuses and evasion. If you were indeed pro science, you would condemn, unconditionally, the treatment. It matters not WHAT was done, only that suppression of science has been done.

yet you excuse it. The New McCarthy.

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson resigns from the GWPF by JCH

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‘I received emails from colleagues all over the world telling me it was a “questionable” group.

‘But what made me the most upset was when a colleague from the US resigned as co-author of a paper, simply because I was involved. … – Lennart Bengtsson

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson resigns from the GWPF by Jonathan Abbey

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It would be useful if Bengtsson were able to be more explicit about the pressure he received, but bullies seem to be on both sides. Michael Mann has apparently received death threats as well as political persecution from Cuccinelli, at least.

It’s definitely a very charged environment for climate scientists to be working in, whichever hypothesis they favor.

Comment on Lennart Bengtsson resigns from the GWPF by Joseph

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You said: ” I can’t say I’ve ever seen a similar story about a scientist that has joined a too alarmist organization.”

I assumed you had examples of scientists joining an “alarmist” organization


Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by Bart R

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Fruitless as it is to focus on the least expensive pointy end of the IPCC analysis, bypassing entirely the non-catastrophic but still economically costly reductions in productivity and loss of resources, we might as well have a closer look at this flawed analysis.

Temperatures stopped rising (the pause), extreme weather did not increase (IPCC SREX), Australian drought turned to flood, Tuvalu has not disappeared, and polar bears thrive. So AR5 WG2 finally said adaptation might be a better response.

http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut4gl/mean:191/mean:193

No pause after a 32 year lapse, and you can do the math for the changes in temperature it would take for a pause to appear on a climate timescale.. Why haven’t you done that math?

Further, the law of conservation of energy tells us that if energy isn’t becoming heat at the surface in the short term, it’s becoming something else somewhere in the short term; the thermomechanical principle anticipates that at least half of this energy is mechanical motion in the short term. That’d be more wind, faster ocean currents, changes in pressure.. oh, hey.. that’s called more extreme weather. You want your cake in the long term, don’t try to eat it in the short term too. And even this is too narrow an analysis: what has changed is the Risk of extreme events; the instantiation of any one set of actual extreme events cannot be construed to reflect that changing probability distribution function any more than flipping a coin once and turning up heads tells us it’s a two-headed coin.

Australia’s a big island; big enough to have droughts (that don’t last forever) and floods (that also don’t last forever), and which have to both be called extreme. Other than an excuse to seem cosmopolitan, what’s the point of mentioning Austrialia. There’s droughts and floods in the US, too, and Americans aren’t fooled by claims what they’re experience isn’t extreme.

Tuvalu.. yeah. Cosmopolitan ostentation aside, also invalid: http://ejil.oxfordjournals.org/content/25/1/343.short is one of some two hundred results of a search of Google Scholar for Tuvalu Sea Level Rise since 2014 alone. Asserting that Tuvalu still hasn’t sunk yet is cold cynicism, not analysis.

Which polar bears, exactly, are thriving? The ones in zoos? How about one single population thought to be increasing and two holding steady while two dozen other populations — all the populations of polar bears in the wild — are dwindling. And while that population is double what it was at the nadir of the species, some seven decades ago after decades of hunters doing pretty much everything in their power to wipe out the species, it is at most at a quarter of its pre-contact numbers.

Adaptation is an inevitable response, because it’s too late to just mitigate. We’re already in AGW conditions, and we cannot expect the trend to stop digging us deeper into these conditions any time soon. Suggesting, however, that mitigation isn’t more urgent than ever, from the point of view of simple economics, forgetting all that Green feelgood stuff, is just plain fiscally irresponsible.

Limiting an analysis, pruned of all other evidence, just to the most speculative portion of the most difficult to assess, exploiting the uncertainty and ignorance afforded by that strategy, is not a trustworthy act.

Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by Tonyb

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Fan

You kindly referenced me on the last thread then immediately moved with
the party crowd to this new thread.

My response to you is even more relevant on this thread than the last one, so here it is again

http://judithcurry.com/2014/05/17/open-thread-11/#comment-559270

In essence the ocean oscillates up and down according to glacier advances and retreats. It was higher around200 AD and 1600 ad with another high level stand in the centuries leading up to the 11 th century. It was how the Vikings managed to sail up European rivers to pillage towns

The alpine glaciers were said to have all but disappeared during the roman warm period . The lia was the coldest period in the last 5000 years so presumably there is the potential for substantial melt from this ice mass. Researchers should be able to tell us whether or not sea levels are likely in the future to reach those of the roman warm period when glaciers were depleted.

Tonyb

Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by jim2

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OK, Bart, you concede the time for mitigation has passed and now is the time for adaptation. Where do you recommend we begin with adaptation?
Please be specific.

Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by pokerguy (aka al neipris)

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Thanks, Rud. Compelling presentation.

The hysterical hand waving from the warmists is just plain ludicrous. Life is at best, a dicey proposition in a cold and uncaring universe. We human beings, burdened with an entirely understandable existential dread, must make what peace we can with our situation, and go on living our lives. Among many other things, this involves making measured, sober judgments as to what the risks are WRT to “climate change,” and what if anything we can reasonably do about them.

The bottom line is there’s not a damn thing we can do to mitigate “climate change” that’s going to make the slightest bit of difference. This is both a cold hard political reality in a complex world with so many competing interests, and likely a physical reality as well.

Any “cure” we foolishly undertake, could easily be worse than the supposed disease. In point of fact, anthro “climate change” might end up being a net positive…to the extent it even exists

Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by Jim D

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An idea of the rate of ice sheet melt without strong forcing is given by the early Holocene sea-level rise rate of 1 meter per century. With forcing, it is likely much faster. For example, even if we think these glaciers will last 1000 years, the melt rate averages 7 meters per century. CO2 levels higher than about 500-700 ppm are inconsistent with any polar ice according to all the paleoclimate evidence from the Eocene.

Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by Steven Mosher

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My question

Bengtsson’s paper was rejected, in PART, because of the concern that the conclusions might be misused by the sceptics.

“Summarising, the simplistic comparison of ranges from AR4, AR5, and Otto et al, combined with the statement they are inconsistent is less then helpful, actually it is harmful as it opens the door for oversimplified claims of “errors” and worse from the climate sceptics media side”

Question did any reviewer express a similar concern about the Science article? specifically that it might be misused by the alarmist press?

probably not.

Having read the Science article and then re reading the press accounts of the article the divergence is stunning.

All of the assumptions and caveats and details of the science which argue against alarm, are glossed over in the message of alarm.

Where are the authors complaining that their science is being misused?

Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by Steven Mosher

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“That’d be more wind, faster ocean currents, changes in pressure.. oh, hey.. that’s called more extreme weather. ”

Not.


Comment on Open thread by Alistair Riddoch

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hmmmm. Let’s try again.

if the equation to back up the simplified form of the greenhouse concern is:

earth internal heat plus absorbed solar heat plus absorbed trapped greenhouse heat = current global temperature at any given point in time.

when we are warming, one potential is an increase in trapped heat.

when we are cooling, in simple words, from a person who believes in anthropogenic CO2 related warming, why aren’t we warming when we are cooling. what is different during the cooling phase to facilitate or allow that cooling.

Or would the CO2 side have us believe the earth never cools?

In lay terms, that prove or suggest evidence. When it cools, HOW does it do so??

Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by Wagathon

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The most depressing is that the school teachers of CAGW worry about what will unfold over a millennia as the quality of public-funded education plummets during our lifetime.

Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by Marc Blank

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Oversimplified claims seem to be the norm among warmists; yes, Steve, the divergence is stunning.

Comment on Sea level rise tipping points by Tonyb

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Jimd

Did you mean the Eocene?

Co2 levels fluctuated considerably. Methane was very considerably higher than today with all the heat generation properties that implies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eocene

I think comparing today with the Eocene is comparing apples and oranges. Also the earth looked very different to today

Tonyb

Comment on Open thread by Alistair Riddoch

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having trouble remembering international problem with rings earlier this year…..sporting….foreign country….seemed like lots of pride was involved…..rings, everywhere problems with rings…what could it have been???

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