Quantcast
Channel: Comments for Climate Etc.
Viewing all 148511 articles
Browse latest View live

Comment on The 97% feud by willard (@nevaudit)

$
0
0

> A big problem with the cheap thrill of “denier! denier!” is that you’ve made it much harder for your future self to cleanly process evidence that doesn’t fit that narrative.

Jesus.

Where to start? Let’s start with Jim:

When I see people frequently throwing out terms like “clearly” and “obviously” when discussing controversial subjects that have a lot of uncertainty in them, at least for those of us who are not clearly on one side or the other, or can’t interpret simple comments without twisting or re-interpreting them, I lose interest in further discussions real fast.

http://www.joseduarte.com/blog/i-was-denied-admission-to-a-social-psychology-program-because-of-my-political-views

What a joke.

PS: Permalinks for comments might be nice.


Comment on The 97% feud by Peter Lang

$
0
0

John Carter,

Thank you for your questions (I’ll insert numbers to make it easier to respond):

Q1. Of this group, how many – about what percentage – are in agreement with the “theory” that long lived anthropomorphic changes to the atmosphere is already significantly affecting the climate right now, and is likely to increasingly affect it in the future.

Q2. Of this group,how many – about what percentage – are not in agreement with the scientific theory that long lived anthropomorphic changes to the atmosphere is already significantly affecting the climate right now, and is likely to increasingly affect it in the future.

Q3. More importantly, what are the reasons for the belief that changing the atmospheric concentrations of long lived greenhouse gases to levels not collectively seen on earth in at least several million years would nevertheless not significantly be affecting the climate right now, nor are likely to do so even more in the future?

Q1 and Q2 ask two questions in the one sentence. These need to be split into two sections. My guess is that a high proportion of climate scientists “are in agreement with the “theory” that long lived anthropomorphic changes to the atmosphere … is likely to increasingly affect [the climate] in the future.” However, I suspect the proportion who “are in agreement with the “theory” that long lived anthropomorphic changes to the atmosphere … is already significantly affecting the climate right now” would be much less.

Regarding Q3, from a policy perspective whether or not GHG emissions will change the climate is not really what is relevant. What is relevant is the impacts of any changes. Will the projected changes to the climate be net beneficial or a net damage. There is a natural human tendency to think the worst and to project the worst case and then spread doomsday scenarios. I am far from persuaded that increasing CO2 concentrations is a bad thing for the planet.

The climate changes abruptly, not as the smooth projections the Integrated Assessment Models (IAM) assume.

We have no idea about the magnitudes, rates of change, direction of change or the probability of when the next abrubt climate change may occur.

We don’t know if CO2 emissions are net beneficial or net cost, but we do know that policies that raise the cost of energy are damaging in many ways (including to future generations’ ability to deal with bad situations that occur in the future).

The last point is possible the most important of all,,yet it is the one that the Climate Cultists have never come to grips with.

Comment on Open thread by jim2

$
0
0

From the article:
Americans are so down on President Obama at the moment that, if they could do the 2012 election all over again, they’d overwhelmingly back the former Massachusetts governor’s bid. That’s just one finding in a brutal CNN poll, released Sunday, which shows Romney topping Obama in a re-election rematch by a whopping nine-point margin, 53 percent to 44 percent. That’s an even larger spread than CNN found in November, when a survey had Romney winning a redo 49 percent to 45 percent.

http://theweek.com/article/index/265418/speedreads-americans-really-wish-they-elected-mitt-romney-instead-of-obama

Comment on The 97% feud by Scott Mc

$
0
0

I am surprised that 3% dont agree that man has some effect on climate. Cities, clear cutting, farming, building dams etc etc must have some effect.

Comment on Open thread by jim2

$
0
0

Hi Rob, once the hole is done, how long does it last? For example, does the surface of the hole spall or scale over?

Comment on The 97% feud by Time For An Ob

$
0
0

Amongst the faulty reasoning categories is appeal to authority.
Is 97% appeal to majority?
And remind me which part of the scientific method is conduct a popularity contest?

Comment on Open thread by Rob Ellison

$
0
0

What a confusion of terms. Examples of nonlinear functions include exponential and trigonometric.

Thus the Mathieu equation that appears in the analysis of elliptical shapes is non-linear. The Mathieu equation is a special case of the wave equation for elliptical shapes. It has been used in relation to standing waves in elliptical, constant depth water bodies under vibration.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/MathieuFunction.html

Plugging numbers into the equation is evaluating numerically but is not numerical evaluation of differential equations in 1, 2 or 3 dimensions using finite difference or finite element methods. Plugging in numbers has no bearing on the nonlinearity of the function.

Nonlinear is commonly for chaotic in the sense of physics. We have multi-dimensional equations such as the Lorenz equations that defined a simple convection model that exhibits certain behavior. The math is less important than recognizing that climate has similar behavior – especially abrupt change – and what this implies about the modes of internal functioning of the systems.

Chaotic is nonlinear – but nonlinear is not necessarily chaotic.

Comment on The 97% feud by Wagathon

$
0
0

The ideas conveyed by “climate” versus “global climate” is important. The UHI (Urban Heat Island) effect exists because local “climate” can be effected by humanity, which is why it only introduces error into climate science to violate proper citing conditions, such as locating official thermometers by asphalt, tarmac, air conditioning ducts, parking lots, jet aircraft and buildings that interfere with airflow.


Comment on The 97% feud by Michael

$
0
0

Where is the ‘fake ethics approval’??

Comment on The 97% feud by Joe Duarte

$
0
0

Willard, it’s important to have arguments, or to address substantive arguments with some sort of rational rebuttal (or even agreement.)

Comment on The 97% feud by John Carpenter

$
0
0

Well Jim, maybe you are under the impression that many subatomic particles have been detected by direct measurement. You would be wrong. What do you think a ‘normal relationship’ between dependent and independent variables would look like with quantum particle measurements?

Comment on The 97% feud by stevepostrel

$
0
0

John Carter of Barsoom: Oddly, it is the geologists who study extremely long-term data who seem least likely to jump on the Urgent Mitigation cause. It does not appear that ACO2 is either necessary or sufficient to generate the claimed results when looking at either historical or prehistoric data. And climate sensitivity, contrary to your assertion above, is pretty much the whole ballgame in terms of policy making.

You might consider some of the points our hostess has made regarding disentangling the effects of CO2 and aerosol forcings on temperature from natural redistributions of heat throughout the earth system. Some wild and crazy people even think that negative cloud feedbacks cancel out a good part of radiative forcing.

Finally, nothing you have written suggests that mitigation of CO2 emissions today is the smart policy even if your dire fears are correct. For example, if the very worst-case fears about sensitivity are true, a crash deceleration of energy output that rendered the world poorer in human and physical capital would fail to avert the putative climate crisis while leaving the world less prepared to adapt to the consequences. Urgent Mitigation policy has to thread a pretty small eye of the needle in terms of forecasts and impacts to be justifiable.

Comment on The 97% feud by Alexander Biggs

$
0
0

Rob Ellison: James Chadwick was confronted with the knowledge that some substances were heavier than the simple “planetary” model then popular in the 1930’s. Although they new that nuclear fields were much more powerful than gravitational, they could not account for the heavier atoms. James realised that he needed a particle as heavy as a proton but with no electric charge. The answer was the Neutron.

The heavy neutron introduces new dynamic properties like lower and more vigorous oscillations, so the molecule like CO2 could absorb more IR heat. Cosmic rays provided free by the universe provided the neutrons by collisions In the atmosphere. Eventually the supply of heavier atoms ran out in 1940 and the oceans, still cold, dragged global temperature back. It took 40 years for the slow oceans to restore the 1940 temperature, but by 1997 we had equilibrium between oceans and troposphere again, and still do today. Perhaps now that the CO2 molecules in the troposphere are fully laden with neutrons we will have no further increase in global temperature.

Comment on The 97% feud by Steven Mosher

$
0
0

Joshua could learn something by taking a week to
Criticize one side. Then a week to criticize the other.
In the end people would call him inconsistent.

I have seen him try once in a while to curb
His obsession. The trained eye comes in handy

Comment on The 97% feud by Don Monfort


Comment on The 97% feud by Steven Mosher

$
0
0

These people are not the audience

Comment on The 97% feud by omanuel

Comment on The 97% feud by stevepostrel

$
0
0

Fernando: While everyone enjoys the leftish political cover of an anti-Bush anti-Urgent Mitigationist (see, we’re not all crazy right wingers!) you should be more careful in your parsing of the history of the Iraq invasion. Everybody, including all the Clinton foreign policy and intel people, thought Saddam was hiding WMD and it turned out that he did indeed have the human and technical infrastructure to regenerate their development fairly quickly, even though his stockpiles were an order of magnitude smaller than expected. And the resolution to invade Iraq had multiple points of justification; WMD was only one. It’s fine to harshly decry the rationale, planning, and execution of the invasion but the “Bush lied” argument requires more than your assertions.

Note: I am not planning on conducting a debate on this subject in the comment thread of this blog. Just registering an objection in the face of repeated claims that if left unanswered might leave the impression of broad consent.

Comment on The 97% feud by Don Monfort

$
0
0

The consensus seems to be that prof. brer rabbette’s class is a good place for a nap.

Comment on Open thread by angech

Viewing all 148511 articles
Browse latest View live


Latest Images