In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005102">jim2</a>.
Yep, if you can get it.
Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jim2
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by antonk2
In reply to joethenonclimatescientist.
1) Writing a research proposal staying with the mainstream herd. No new stuff, don’t upset the old apple cart!
2)Getting a grant from the mainstream (German) bureacrazy
If not 1 than unemployment.
In particle physics too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKiBlGDfRU8
In another branch of physics as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFYxgQGvZs
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by antonk2
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005031">Rob Starkey</a>.
Intergovernmental PCC, not Interscience PCC, so yes. You want the research money? Write us what we like to hear!
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Wagathon
The bizarre world of Western academia’s Hot Eorld alarmists simply ignores The human experience. Let’s remember back on the birth of Western knowledge in the context of the most recent hot and cold climates on Earth—e.g., there was an 800-year warm period that peaked about 2100 years ago. The peak was a couple of centuries after a number of Jewish families led by Moses fled Egypt (the Exodus), maybe… 1,313 years before the birth of Christ (BC). After warming peaked there was about 500 years of cooling until the average global temperature would have been about what it is today. After that, cooling continued for another 250 years; and, then temperatures rose over the next 250 years, to about what they are today.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Jungletrunks
In reply to Wagathon.
I have a question for Dr. Zharkova, hopefully she’s still following the discussion; about the Spoerer minimum and the extended effects of Vela Juniors gamma rays.
You described the profound effects Vela Junior’s gamma rays had on the Spoerer minimum, it dramatically diminished its temperature curve. I’m interested in the extended effects this supernova’s gamma rays had on Earth’s temperature leading up to the Industrial Revolution.
Within your talk, “Climate and Energy Realists”, you stated that the gamma rays from Vela Junior, while greatly reduced today, are still the highest source of measurable gamma rays from space. While I presume its effects today are negligible relative to Earth’s temperature, there must be a certain period beyond the Spoerer minimum where Earth’s temperature remained demonstrably affected? Is there a calculation for the duration of its effect on Earth’s mean temperature beyond the Spoerer minimum?
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Christos Vournas
The trace gas CO2 cannot warm Earth, because Earth’s atmosphere is a thin atmosphere, and because Earth’s atmosphere doesn’t act as some kind of a warm blanket.
CO2 is a trace gas in the Earth’s thin atmosphere.
Earth’s atmosphere greenhouse effect (because theoretically there should be some, since Earth’s atmosphere consists from substance, but it is very rare and thin substance)
Earth’s atmosphere greenhouse effect is something about
0.4 degrees Celsius.
CO2 content in Earth’s atmosphere is some ~ 400 ppm, a very small content. For comparison it is 1 molecule of CO2 in 2500 molecules of air.
–
Link: https://www.cristos-vournas.com
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005112">Christos Vournas</a>.
Apples and oranges: "air" (O2, N2, A) do not absorb infrared; CO2, water, and other greenhouse gases DO absorb infrared radiation. A book or class on molecular spectroscopy might help.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Christos Vournas
Thank you, BA Bushaw, for your response.
“Apples and oranges: “air” (O2, N2, A) do not absorb infrared; CO2, water, and other greenhouse gases DO absorb infrared radiation. A book or class on molecular spectroscopy might help.”
–
Link: https://www.cristos-vournas.com
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Comment on The extraordinary climate events of 2022-24 by SCIENCE, CLIMATE, ENERGY AND POLITICAL NEWS ROUNDUP 2024 APRIL | wryheat
[…] insights into a climate event that may not be repeated for hundreds or even thousands of years. (Read more) […]
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jim2
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
Our Weather Extremes Are Customary in History
https://rclutz.com/2024/04/05/our-weather-extremes-are-customary-in-history/
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
Jim2,
“Our Weather Extremes Are Customary in History”
Yes, but the question is frequency and intensity.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jim2
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005113">BA Bushaw (ganon1950)</a>.
The point is all of the known excursions must be included in any analysis.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Russell Seitz
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005010">Russell Seitz</a>.
"The instrumental record is corrupt."
Stop being silly, man- do you really imagine the reading will change if you record them instead ?
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by beththeserf
Climate models , scribble scribble.
https://rclutz.files.wordpress.com/2022/12/climate-models-epic-fail.png
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jim2
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005113">BA Bushaw (ganon1950)</a>.
If the Earth has experienced heat waves before 2011 that were as bad or worse than anything happening today, that blows a hole in the hypothesis that additional CO2 is making heat waves worse. Of course, we face a quality-of-data issue for periods before 1900 or so, but any analysis of heatwaves should at least mention notable heat waves of the past and attempt to quantify them. This is just an aspect of honest inclusion of data that may counter the hypothesis.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005113">BA Bushaw (ganon1950)</a>.
Jim2,
"If"- LOL.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Jungletrunks
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005113">BA Bushaw (ganon1950)</a>.
1936
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jim2
Get ready for your energy costs to go up. Thanks, Biden!
Overall, the measure could further drive the nation toward emission-free renewable power and hasten coal plant closures at a time when artificial intelligence, data centers and vehicle electrification are driving up demand. Consumption at US data centers alone is poised to triple from 2022 levels, to as much as 390 terawatt hours by the end of the decade, according to the Boston Consulting Group. The dynamic has prompted warnings that electric reliability is at stake.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by cerescokid
After years of debate about what is causing the problem, solar or CO2, the real culprit is coming to light.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMAfS9LXoAAipjk?format=jpg&name=4096×4096
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by joethenonclimatescientist
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
BA Bushaw (ganon1950) | April 24, 2024 at 6:46 pm |
Jim2,
“Our Weather Extremes Are Customary in History”
Babs response to Jim2 – “Yes, but the question is frequency and intensity.”
Its worth noting that after adjusting for observational deficiencies, there has been no discernable change in trend of extreme weather over the last 150 or so years. 150+ years of warming with no discernable trend in frequency or intensity of extreme weather, yet climate scientists predict an increase in both frequency and intensity. empirical evidence in question
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
Joey,
Is that just a personal made up delusion, or do you have some evidence?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-021-00202-w
“Over the last decade, the world warmed by 0.25 °C, in-line with the roughly linear trend since the 1970s. Here we present updated analyses showing that this seemingly small shift has led to the emergence of heat extremes that would be virtually impossible without anthropogenic global warming. Also, record rainfall extremes have continued to increase worldwide . . . ”
The increases have been predicted and OBSERVED, and with little doubt, they will continue to increase – that’s science (not unsupported denial).
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by joethenonclimatescientist
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
BA Bushaw (ganon1950) | April 25, 2024 at 9:47 am |
Joey,
Is that just a personal made up delusion, or do you have some evidence?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-021-00202-w
“Over the last decade, the world warmed by 0.25 °C, in-line with the roughly linear trend since the 1970s.
BABy’ scientist – cherry picking start dates again.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jacksmith4tx
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005128">jim2</a>.
My electricity cost has been .06¢ KWh since 2012. It will still be .06¢ KWh in 2032 no mater how much the AI data centers and crypto miners suck out of your pocket. Thanks solar power!
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
from
“Mean Monthly Temperature Records Across the Globe /Time series of Global Land and Ocean Areas at Record Levels for October from 1951–2023”. NCEI.NOAA.gov
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by joethenonclimatescientist
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
BABy
1) your second time citing a study using cherrypicked start dates
2) two studies with weak adjustments for observational deficiencies.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Christos Vournas
BA Bushaw,
“…“air” (O2, N2, A) do not absorb infrared; ”
–
Interesting!
–
https://www.cristos-vournas.com
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Jungletrunks
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005113">BA Bushaw (ganon1950)</a>.
1936 redux.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by joethenonclimatescientist
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
BABy-
Oops – We were discussing changes in frequency and intensity of extreme weather events
Did you change the subject to hide the fact you were wrong on that subject?
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
Joey says:
“BABy’ scientist – cherry picking start dates again.”
You’re just deflecting now. You have nothing – where are your references? I did no cherry-picking; I referenced a paper and quoted from its abstract. And since added more relevant references, You might try it, otherwise, you are an ignorant waste of time that thinks name-calling is good argumentation.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005113">BA Bushaw (ganon1950)</a>.
Except for responding to your idiocies, I have been addressing climate change and temperature extremes - you are the one deflecting to personal attacks and name-calling. It is no surprise that you dismiss reviewed papers from Nature and datasets from NCEI, while you can't provide any of your own. I understand your apparent objective to attack my comments wherever you can, but you're not very good at it.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Michael Lewis
As an indication of what science is up against these days, I posted a link to this article on my Mastodon account, and within 24 hours my account was suspended.
“Reason: Content violates the following community guidelines
Do not share information widely-known to be false and misleading”
What could be false and misleading about solar dynamics?
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by joethenonclimatescientist
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
BAB
I am reposting my original comment on the subject and your response.
joethenonclimatescientist | April 25, 2024 at 9:18 am |
BA Bushaw (ganon1950) | April 24, 2024 at 6:46 pm |
Jim2,
“Our Weather Extremes Are Customary in History”
Babs response to Jim2 – “Yes, but the question is frequency and intensity.”
Its worth noting that after adjusting for observational deficiencies, there has been no discernable change in trend of extreme weather over the last 150 or so years. 150+ years of warming with no discernable trend in frequency or intensity of extreme weather, yet climate scientists predict an increase in both frequency and intensity. empirical evidence in question
BaB:
Below is your first response which includes the first insult in the thread, along with your intentional change of subject to hide the fact that you were wrong.
BA Bushaw (ganon1950) | April 25, 2024 at 9:47 am |
Joey,
Is that just a personal made up delusion, or do you have some evidence?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-021-00202-w
“Over the last decade, the world warmed by 0.25 °C, in-line with the roughly linear trend since the 1970s.
Your subsequent responses continued with your typical insulting comments.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by joethenonclimatescientist
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
BAB – with all your insulting comments – not once did address the substance of the original comment
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
Joe,
Your chronology interesting, but falsely described. This thread started with (notice the – Reply – who you are replying to, to stay within the thread):
BA Bushaw (ganon1950) | April 24, 2024 at 2:28 pm | Reply
Apples and oranges: “air” (O2, N2, A) do not absorb infrared; CO2, water, and other greenhouse gases DO absorb infrared radiation. A book or class on molecular spectroscopy might help.
The first reply (and obviously your first reply) was the deflection:
“jim2 | April 24, 2024 at 6:20 pm |
Our Weather Extremes Are Customary in History
https://rclutz.com/2024/04/05/our-weather-extremes-are-customary-in-history/”
Like I said, you’re not very good at it – you hijacked my comment on atmospheric photophysics.
As for: “Is that just a personal made up delusion, or do you have some evidence?” Apparently, you don’t have any evidence, so . . .
PS – In review, the first insult/name-calling was “Babs”.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jim2
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005133">jacksmith4tx</a>.
I'm happy it worked out for you. I wonder what your fellow citizens had to on installation and now have to pay for your solar power?
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jim2
The true cost of roof-top solar …
A couple of weeks ago in Australia the chief of Alinta Energy admitted in a big speech that the industry needs to be honest with the public about the costs of the transition. This marks a big shift from the “cheaper and cleaner” misinformation which the renewables industry was practically built on. Jeff Dimery had a stark warning — his company bought a large old coal plant in Victoria for a billion dollars in 2018, and it powers one fifth of Victoria. But to replace that today with renewables would cost $10 billion.
But he also laid bare the crushing effect subsidized rooftop solar PV panels are having on the transition. No news outlets seemed to appreciate the implications of this. Fully one in three Australian homes now has solar panels, but they are all dumping power on the grid at the same time pushing wholesale prices into negative territory that burns the other generators. The midday solar glut, as he calls it, means no one wanted to invest in large scale renewables. But as night follows day, surely that which ruins the market for large scale renewables would also ruin it for large scale fossil fuel plants too? The subsidized solar panels are vandalizing the whole market.
Skeptics who have been predicting this all along, note that the same people who cheered every time a coal plant was struck down are now wading through an impenetrable swamp of their own creation. The same subsidies that hurt coal and gas power, now wipe out the large (subsized) wind and solar plants too. It’s takes some chutzpah to complain about solar subsidies ruining the market for other generators which are also subsidized.
Someone let a plague of solar-locusts on our grid. They eat the profits out of all the reliable providers, which close down. We are actively sabotaging the entire grid — killing off the parts that made it work.
This from Jo Nova’s site.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by joethenonclimatescientist
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
Bab – Crosscheck your chronology – you responded to Jim
BA Bushaw (ganon1950) | April 25, 2024 at 12:52 pm |
Joe,
Your chronology interesting, but falsely described. This thread started with (notice the – Reply – who you are replying to, to stay within the thread):
BA Bushaw (ganon1950) | April 24, 2024 at 2:28 pm | Reply
BA Bushaw (ganon1950) | April 24, 2024 at 6:46 pm |
Jim2,
“Our Weather Extremes Are Customary in History”
Yes, but the question is frequency and intensity.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
Joe,
“BAB – with all your insulting comments – not once did address the substance of the original comment”
I addressed Christos’ comment about CO2 only being a trace compared to the major components of air. If you didn’t understand it, and deflected to something else, that’s your problem.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jacksmith4tx
In reply to jacksmith4tx.
Vote for jim2 !
He will abolish the EPA all Public Utility Commissions and let the free market rule.
or
Vote for jacksmith4tx !
He will support cutting edge technologies that will free the common man from the slavery of centralized power systems and the elites that own them.
Microgrids for everyone.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
Joe,
That’s right – you just quoted jim2’s deflection, and gave your opinion on it.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Rob Starkey
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005133">jacksmith4tx</a>.
Jack
Answer Jim's point. How much of the system cost was subsidized including installation?
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jacksmith4tx
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005133">jacksmith4tx</a>.
Rob, I documented the whole thing on this blog several times since 2012 so go check it out. Yes I did get a income tax credit. Do you deduct mortgage interests? Using the same logic I guess you like seeing poor renters getting screwed?
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Rob Starkey
In reply to <a href="https://judithcurry.com/2024/04/18/how-we-know-that-the-sun-changes-the-climate-part-i-the-past/#comment-1005133">jacksmith4tx</a>.
Jack
Nice deflection. Worthy of BABy. You wasnt me you search years of this blog vs you answering in a paragraph.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Björn Nyman
Hi Javier. Thank you for your very interesting articles. How can I contact you? Are you able to share the data of your temperature reconstruction from Marcott proxies?
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Ulric Lyons
In reply to Valentina Zharkova.
Centennial solar minima are a product of the synodic cycles of Earth and Venus versus Jupiter and Uranus. This cycle slips slowly over a 1726.62 year cycle, producing two series of grand solar minima, on average every 863.3 years.
When the Earth-Venus inferior conjunctions are in better alignment with Jupiter-Uranus inferior conjunctions (on either side of the Sun), the centennial minima have to be shorter. And when the two pairs are in poorer alignment, the centennial minima have to be longer. It’s that simple.
My discrete modeling shows the current centennial minimum to concern solar cycles 24 and 25 only, but with the next two centennial minima from 2095 and from 2200 being majorly long. The best heliocentric analogue for these two coming GSM, is 3453 years back, from 1365 BC and from 1250 BC, i.e. the late Neolithic collapse.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by sherro01
Javier,
Let’s put measured data aside for a moment.
Observations of weather/cimate on people are sources of data to distinguish if causes were linked to solar or something else.
Jim2 (above) mentioned the deadly 1896 New York heatwave (August 4 to 14). That year also saw perhaps Australia’s strongest heatwave, in January in the S-E of the country.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-21/1896-heatwave-killed-435-climate-scientists-cant-compare-today/11809998
We have two major killing events in one year, 8 months apart on different sides of the globe, to raise interest. What mechanisms can we propose to explain this? How can we validly compare these events from a time when data are sparse, in 1896, to (say) the heatwaves of 2023 -4?
Incidentally, both places were in major droughts at the time. What other observations or deductions can be invoked?
BTW, the Australian historic data on measured temperatures has been severly adjusted by the curator, BOM, who are now using adjusted temperatures to arrive at their conclusions, long favouring CO2 control knob ideas and allowing researchers everywhere to arrive at findings that conflict with the raw data picture. Geoff S
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Woher wir wissen, dass die Sonne Motor des Klimawandels ist. Teil 1: die Vergangenheit | EIKE - Europäisches Institut für Klima & Energie
[…] [i] NASA. Is the Sun causing global warming? […]
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by jim2
Tony B. was a fount of historical weather information. I haven’t seen him around lately, but he probably has more historical instances of heatwaves.
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by Joethenonclimatescientist
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
BA Bushaw (ganon1950) | April 25, 2024 at 2:26 pm |
Joe,
That’s right – you just quoted jim2’s deflection, and gave your opinion on it.
BaBy – Why do you such a problem telling the truth?
I quoted your comment to Jim2 – and included jim2’s comment so that my response would not be misinterpreted. ( I prefer full disclosure and honesty).
My comment directly addressed your comment, not jim2’s. You chose to dispute my analysis with two non relevant links which did not dispute my points (ie your typical behavior when you are wrong). You have yet to provide any studies, research or other data to support your response to Jim2,
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Comment on How we know that the sun changes the Climate. Part I: The past by BA Bushaw (ganon1950)
In reply to BA Bushaw (ganon1950).
Joe said:
“My comment directly addressed your comment, not jim2’s. You chose to dispute my analysis with two non relevant links which did not dispute my points (ie your typical behavior when you are wrong). You have yet to provide any studies, research or other data to support your response to Jim2,”
My comment (the subject of the thread) was:
“Apples and oranges: “air” (O2, N2, A) do not absorb infrared; CO2, water, and other greenhouse gases DO absorb infrared radiation. A book or class on molecular spectroscopy might help.”
That was my original comment. Deflect all you want. Anything you have said has been about Jim2’s deflective comment:
“Our Weather Extremes Are Customary in History”
Both of you are deflecting from my comment on how the GHE works. Nonetheless, I responded to your deflective comments with references relevant to them (try it). As for not responding to you – quite often nothing to respond to – just personal opinions without supporting evidence.
No more time for angry and insecure non-scientists that don’t/can’t support their opinions. Bye bye Joey.
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