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Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Ron Graf

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Mark:

(c) Whether warming is ‘dangerous’ – this statement is almost inane in its unscientific nature. Clearly if climate sensitivity is high (and there is a non negligible risk it may be) then warming will be correspondingly high and will be dangerous

First, it is the burden of the one making the extraordinary claim to present extraordinary evidence. That the world will have have dangerous consequences due to industrialization has been a claim since the first English textile workers (the Luddites) smashed the newly steam-powered looms. Their evidence proved lacking. The ones claiming in 1981 Aids could take a third of the world’s population turned out to be wrong. The one’s predicting ozone catastrophe like Aids saw a real problem but exaggerated with wide eyes. Dr. Curry has seen all of the evidence evolve and knows current happenings in climate science on perhaps a broader scope than anyone. I would give that some respect.
Second, if it is worse than we thought we have time. Research into alternative energy has not stopped. Batteries are being revolutionized with nano-colloidal electrolytes, etc… (one glimpse from my industry). We will be fine if we don’t throw away our liberty, sovereignty and capital on emotional propaganda substitute for science.
Perhaps this whole climate science thing is an inoculation on civilization that will be taught in books 30 years from now like the Luddites were taught as lesson when I was in school.


Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Jim D

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Identifying fossil fuel funding for organizations like Heartland who go out to state governments and try to oppose renewable energy, or who go to the Vatican to oppose the Pope’s ideas on climate change, may be regarded as a “conspiracy theory”, but it is well supported by evidence of money flows. These folks are not science purists, and don’t even try to hide their ties. Similarly other thinktanks. So that is not a conspiracy theory, but just the way money talks. On the other hand, many skeptics do belong to a widespread conspiracy theory on Agenda 21, Club of Rome, etc. See any of the missives by Tim Ball published at WUWT, for example, or see any right-wing talk radio show when they interview these people, that include Monckton in their number. No one calls them out in those circles. They view the ultimate goal of global warming science to be world government in order to control the world population. It may sound crazy, but look it up. I wonder if the course mentions these people, or perhaps Australia has less of that stuff than the US.

Comment on Wind turbines’ CO2 savings and abatement cost by Peter Lang

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Barnes,

Thank you. Appreciated.

… until sufficient political will and understanding come to realize that nuclear is the only true solution to our long term energy needs, …

I’ve been working on this for 25 years :)

… at least for electrical power generation.

Once we have low cost nuclear power I expect in the future we’ll be able to make unlimited transport fuels (e.g. gasolene/petrol, diesel, jet fuel) from seawater: http://bravenewclimate.com/2013/01/16/zero-emission-synfuel-from-seawater/

The US Navy is already researching it for producing 100,000 gallons per day of pure, clean jet fuel on board their aircraft carriers (at $3 to $6 gallon current estimates). From the Navy’s perspective the main reason is to reduce the dependence on tankers which are the most vulnerable part of their supply chain.

The cost would be even lower if hydrogen from high temperature nuclear reactors (like the Russian and Chinese HTR; Indonesia is looking at buying these from China), instead of electrolysis which is what the current cost estimates are based on.

We really have no idea what the future will bring but we do know that cheaper energy will bring a better future faster for everyone on the planet.

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Ron Graf

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Australians got an early taste of future by first demanding a carbon tax and now demanding it go away. The costs are calculated to be 50:1 non-effective to the solution using even IPCC worst scenario. The study got named the 50:1 project. It is the one with David Evans and Jo Nova, Chris Essex, Fred Singer, Anthony Watts, Donna Laframboise and Mark Morano. The interviewer, Topher Field, is the key to the effectiveness of the videos.
http://topher.com.au/50-to-1-video-project/

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Danny Thomas

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Barnes,
And yes, AGW wins! The jury has deliberated and based on the preponderance of evidence it’s AGW. 51%/49% and jury awards…….one dollar. There is fairly clear (for this observer) confirmation that warming is occurring. Attribution, not so much. Risk management is so one sided as to be intolerable for the other. The CAGW side has no apparent understanding of the reasoning. This leads to the need for a course to “Make sense of climate denial” when from my view no one any where denies……….climate!
So I’m taking the course so I can better grasp my denial of ……….well…………nothing. (Skepticsm. You bet!)

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Ron Graf

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Brandon, how did you escape liberal indoctrination. Were you home-schooled? (Actually, that is growing mode of education.) Or, did you spend a lot of time arguing with authorities?

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Richard Tol (@RichardTol)

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Teaching staff does not answer questions either.

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by popesclimatetheory

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Temperature is well inside the bounds of the past ten thousand years.

There is no data that suggests anything different.

Climate alarmism is based on Computer Model Output and Computer Model Output has always been wrong.


Comment on Wind turbines’ CO2 savings and abatement cost by Carrick

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Peter Lang, there seems to be some confusion here: I have never suggested picking one technology over another. I happen to like nuclear, though I recognize it realistically as not a sustainable technology without a serious effort to address the waste problem.

But I think you have an overly myopic view if you think the only use of an energy source is on grid.

What what I need solar power for (power applications in remote regions with high solar exposure), it is totally a ringing success.

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Climatism

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Reblogged this on <a href="https://climatism.wordpress.com/2015/04/29/making-nonsense-of-climate-denial/" rel="nofollow">Climatism</a> and commented: "It is clear from all this that Cook et al. are UNFCCC/IPCC ideologues. There is nothing wrong per se with ideology; it is the ideologues that are the problem – absence of doubt, intolerance of debate, appeal to authority, desire to convince others of the ideological “truth”, and a willingness to punish those that don’t concur. They need to look in the mirror and understand their own motivated reasoning." ....

Comment on Wind turbines’ CO2 savings and abatement cost by Peter Lang

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Carrick,

‘Myopic’ would be advocating to spend most time and effort arguing about technologies that can have no significant impact on global GHG emissions and supply only a very small proportion of global electricity. Solar’s role is minute. I do agree it is an important role for a minute proportion of the population, but this role has nothing to do with climate mitigation or GHG emissions policy (which is the main reason it gets subsidies). So, it is a different discussion, not relevant here other than as a distraction. I’ve had 25 years of this distraction.


http://grist.org/climate-energy/a-way-to-get-power-to-the-worlds-poor-without-making-climate-change-worse/

Even in outback, remote parts of Australia, renewables are not economic to only barely economic even with subsidies:

Only 2 per cent of Australia’s population live in off-grid areas, however over 6 per cent of the country’s total electricity is consumed in off-grid areas. Around 74 per cent of that electricity is generated from natural gas and the remainder is mostly from diesel fuel; making it Australia’s most expensive electricity due to the underlying high gas and diesel prices in the remote areas. However, due to lower levels of coal generation, the off-grid market has the lowest average emission intensity of all of Australia’s electricity markets despite only 1 per cent of electricity is generated from renewable sources. An estimated 15,575 GWh of electricity was produced in 2012 by off-grid generation in Australia; supplied from a total installed off-grid generation capacity of approximately 5GW.

It is unlikely off grid will be more than 5% of electricity globally, so focusing on solutions for that is a waste of time. But that’s what the climate alarmists and advocates have been doing for the past 25 years at least. My point is that it is irrational to be spending so my time focusing on non solution to the main problem

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Ron Graf

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Jim, I will grant you that there is corporate interests involved in most political debates. Where there is politics there's money and opportunity. However, you have been here long enough to know that is not the driver of the skeptical side or the government control side. Also, there are those opportunists, like Brandon S, who are shamelessly exploiting the wide interest in the topic to line his pockets. (Sorry Brandon, I'm on to you.) ;) No, for real, this <a href="http://www.spaceandscience.net/id1.html" rel="nofollow">John Casey, NASA retired </a>guy can't seriously believe the primary cause of our warming and variability is solar. I saw his infomercial for his book, Dark Winter. He's claiming that we are entering a new solar minimum and you better hold onto your galoshes (snow shoes), the big chill is coming. So Jim, there is coolers that are from NASA. Whooda thunk? But, here is a video of the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh9kDCuPuU8" rel="nofollow">Dr. Richard Milne, an Edinburgh University biology prof giving a lecture</a> on the real scoop on climate science. Please watch and give me you opinion.

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Mike Flynn

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For anybody convinced that we are all doomed due to increasing CO2 levels, I recommend the following honours program course from a U.S. University :

“It’s the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)” The course includes an option to include global warming in the “design your own apocalypse” section.

Any takers?

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Danny Thomas

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Ron Graf,
No!!!!! Please not another “global cooling” warning. I’ve not gotten the AGW side to accept that there was an earlier one, yet (and doubt I will).

Dr. Milne, although a seemingly nice guy, has only one playbook. And it’s AGW all the way. (Took a class w/ him on line and he’s strictly party line).

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Danny Thomas


Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Don Monfort

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stevefitzpatrick,

We all appreciate Mosher more than we let on. I can testify that I have learned a lot from the little fella. He could be more effective if he were less cryptic. And more even tempered, like myself.

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by Don Monfort

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Those are really good arguments, jimmy dee. Very persuasive. You have won us over this time. Don’t you ever get tired of yourself?

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by freeHat

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Using generous scenario/risk numbers, .5C per decade rise gives you 15 years to do something about it – allowing a decade for panic to build up.

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by PA

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Half a century of research into inoculation theory has found that the way to neutralise misinformation is to expose people to a weak form of the misinformation. The way to achieve this is to explain the fallacy employed by the myth. Once people understand the techniques used to distort the science, they can reconcile the myth with the fact.

The absolute unquestioning conviction they are right and any “wrong thinking” person is a poor misinformed person who believes myths rather than facts.

No possibility of doubt, no range of reasonable interpretation.

It is scary. George Orwell was British so he didn’t get the idiom quite right. But he came frighteningly close. Global warming theory is so newspeakish that you wonder if they are doing it deliberately for effect.

How can anyone be so biased and tone deaf to what they are saying?

Comment on Making (non)sense of climate denial by agnostic2015

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Joseph: <i>To me a scientific debate that depends on future outcomes is never over. But we don’t have to have absolute agreement about something to act. If we did, we would never do anything. I find these numbers pretty impressive. If you think about how we could have something like the IPCC if there weren’t shared views about climate change in the scientific community? And finally we are talking about risks. There will always be uncertainty about what the future will hold, but it is also the current mainstream view is that severe consequences are possible if we continue on our current path.</i> On the face of it, this position is reasonable. It is essentially the precautionary principle. But climate change, whether or not caused by man, comes <b>benefits</b> as well as risks. Then there is the issue of cost versus benefit, and the double edged sword of the precautionary principle: - Any cost relating to mitigation of a speculative (but possible) outcome in the future is a cost that cannot be expended on non-speculative, known and certain risks we face today. We maybe might save X number of people in the future, but at the cost of Y number of people that might have been saved if we used our resources towards that. - It may be that we are mitigating for the wrong thing. There are <b>risks</b> associated with a <b>colder</b> climate as well. If consensus science is right, and the climate is very sensitive to CO2, then we may be inadvertently staving off a potentially <b>worse</b> outcome from global cooling. Reducing emissions of CO2 might be the <b>riskier</b> option. - Finally, emissions, energy production, and wealth creation are inextricably linked. In 50 years time we will be vastly, orders of magnitude, wealthier than we are today. Just as today we are wealthier than those 50 years ago. We will have unimagined technology and resources we can bring to bear on all sorts of as yet unknown problems - one of which <b>could</b> be climate change - whether made by us or not. It makes no sense to hamper progress in that direction, and prefer mitigation of a speculative future risk against known existential ones.
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