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Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by climatereason

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John

Your antenna needs tuning. I made the original remark several days ago and repeated them again today following Beths’ link to a real life person who took actual real life measurements. Have you been on holiday or something? :)

Are the observations perfectly reliable? No.

Are there enough accurate measurements pre 1960’ish to give us a very good idea as to what is happening globally? No.

Can we rely on the SST’s in a few well travelled areas for short periods? Probably yes.

Should we heed Hubert Lambs maxim (applied to land measurements) that we can understand the tendency but not the precision ? Most definitely

My regards to Boggis. I hear that even large rats are in awe of him.

tonyb


Comment on Week in review – science edition by climatereason

Comment on Week in review – science edition by Steven Mosher

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Read it again.
Monkton model fails validation against observations.
That is the end of the important story.
The rest of the paper explains why that happens.
IE. Setting parameters wrong.
You would not accept an ipcc model that was wrong. Why the deference for soon andand monkton?

Comment on Week in review – science edition by ristvan

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Judith hosted my guest post on this, with a formal reply from Monckton, a couple of months ago. In a nutshell, his equation can be reduced to ~1.1-1.2 (the Planck response to CO2 alone) * (1/1-f)) where f is the net sum of feedbacks. Therefore the part of the paper criticizing Lindzen’s Bode feedback model of sensitivity is worse than incongruous. Second, I showed that most of Moncktons variables were just another way to compute the ~1.2Planck response. Third, I showed that with better estimates of his transience fraction r (I used TCR/ ECS) and f (Moncktons lambda sub0 times f subt, which in his paper is g subt, which is mathematicaly equivalent to Bode f) his equation outputs the same ECS as that most likely when derived from energy budget models over the past century by Lewis and Curry in 2014. About 1.75 for the Monckton equation, versus about 1.7 for L&C.
The new paper is paywalled. Any paper with Nuccitelli and ATTP as authors is not one I am interested in paying to read.

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by NOAA Study Takes World ‘by Storm': No Global Warming Pause! | Watts Up With That?

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[…] (because she’s the least identified as a “denier”) so far is Judith Curry’s “Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming?” She points out that the datasets on which Karl et al. rely have greater uncertainties than […]

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by Tony Banton

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Reposted from Hotwhopper:

Email exchange between Anthony Watts and Tom Peterson

Dear Sou et al.,

I thought you might find an email exchange I had yesterday with Anthony Watts interesting. 16 hours ago I received this email from Anthony Watts:

Dear Dr. Peterson,
This latest paper, Karl et al. 2015 is an embarrassment to science. It epitomizes president Eisenhower’s second warning in his farewell address about science and politics becoming hopelessly intertwined, and thus corrupted.
In my last telephone conversation with you, I stated (paraphrasing) that “I believe you folks aren’t doing anything fraudulent, but you are doing what you feel is correct science in what you believe is a correct way”.
After seeing the desperate tricks pulled in Karl 2015 to erase “the pause” via data manipulation, I no longer hold that opinion. You needed it to go away, so you prostituted yourselves, perhaps at the direction of higher ups.
This will be NCDC’s Waterloo, and will backfire on all of you terribly on the world stage. Take a lesson from Yamamoto’s own observation after he bombed Pearl Harbor. Take a lesson from what is on WUWT today.
How sad for you all.
Anthony Watts
cc: [undisclosed recipients]

***********************

14 hours ago I sent Anthony Watts this email response:

Dear Mr. Watts,
As you might imagine, my views about our paper and our motives are somewhat different than yours. To explain why, I should start by explaining my views on what science is and how it works.
Here

is a 14 minute TEDxAsheville talk I gave in January on What is Science. While I can’t do justice to a 14 minute talk in a single sentence, the bottom line is that science is the result of tests.
So let me give you two examples from our paper. One of the new adjustments we are applying is extending the corrections to ship data, based on information derived from night marine air temperatures, up to the present (we had previously stopped in the 1940s). As we write in the article’s on-line supplement, “This correction cools the ship data a bit more in 1998-2000 than it does in the later years, which thereby adds to the warming trend. To evaluate the robustness of this correction, trends of the corrected and uncorrected ship data were compared to co-located buoy data without the offset added. As the buoy data did not include the offset the buoy data are independent of the ship data. The trend of uncorrected ship minus buoy data was -0.066°C dec-1 while the trend in corrected ship minus buoy data was -0.002°C dec-1. This close agreement in the trend of the corrected ship data indicates that these time dependent ship adjustments did indeed correct an artifact in ship data impacting the trend over this hiatus period.”
The second example I will pose as a question. We tested the difference between buoys and ships by comparing all the co-located ship and buoy data available in the entire world. The result was that buoy data averaged 0.12 degrees C colder than the ships. We also know that the number of buoys has dramatically increased over the last several decades. Adding more colder observations in recent years can’t help but add a cool bias to the raw data. What would you recommend we do about it? Leave a known bias in the data or correct the data for the bias? The resulting trend would be the same whether we added 0.12 C to all buoy data or subtracted 0.12 C from all ship data.
You are, of course, welcome to share this with your readers (or not), as you deem appropriate.
Regards,
Tom

****************

13 hours ago I received this email reply from Anthony Watts:

Thank you for the reply.
I’ll consider and advise.
Anthony

*******************

And that is the last I heard from Anthony up to now.

Anthony hasn’t yet taken Dr Peterson up on his offer to post his comment at WUWT. If you want to share it with the WUWT-ians, feel free :)

Comment on Week in review – science edition by ristvan

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The paper on computers and math was interesting, but the title is misleading. Its about recasting the mathematical foundations beyond Bertrand Russell’s set/type theory, so that proofs can become computer checkable.

Comment on Week in review – science edition by curryja

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Hi Rud, I just went to email to forward a copy of the paper to you, and spotted an email with Monckton’s reply (submitted to the journal). stay tuned.


Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by Don Monfort

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Well, put that way it seems very reasonable. What difference does it make if your pretend that buoys are ships that pass in the night, or you pretend that ships that pass in the night are buoys?

Comment on Week in review – science edition by ristvan

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Steven, no it doesn’t. The results Monckton produced using his derived constants do. But that is a problem with his derivation of those constant values, not the derivation of the equation in which they are used. See my comment below and previous guest post here on this.

Comment on Week in review – science edition by ...and Then There's Physics

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The new paper is paywalled. Any paper with Nuccitelli and ATTP as authors is not one I am interested in paying to read.

Oooh, ending with an ad hom. That’s a surprise. Okay, no it’s not.

Maybe you can explain how this

In a nutshell, his equation can be reduced to ~1.1-1.2 (the Planck response to CO2 alone) * (1/1-f)) where f is the net sum of feedbacks.

is Monckton and co-authors’s model, rather than a model that has essentially been in use for decades. It’s essentially a basic form of an energy balance model. See Roe (2009) for example. The error in Monckton et al. isn’t the model specifically; it’s the parameters that are used. Well, there is one basic error, which is that the transient fraction should really be convolved with the forcing timeseries. Monckton et al. try to resolve that by simply setting the transient fraction to 1, but that creates another error in that it then means that their model assumes that equilibrium is attained instantly, which is clearly wrong.

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by Don Monfort

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“Globally, there were 21,870 matches with a mean SST difference of of 0.12degC and a standard deviation of 0.85degC.”

Please define “matches”.

Comment on Week in review – science edition by ristvan

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The Sargasso Sea pH paper’s abstract is really interesting. So far as I know, the first tropical Atlantic analysis showing that most pH variation except in barren ocean is biogeochemical, and not pCO2. Previously, this had been established for the Pacific. Hofmann et. al. Multiecosystem comparison, PLoS One 6: e28983 (2011) and essay/guest post Shell Games

Comment on Week in review – science edition by ristvan

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ATTP, you just said what I said to Mosher upthread about 15 minutes ago. At least it seems so.

Comment on Week in review – science edition by Brandon S? (@Corpus_no_Logos)

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That’s definitely not the impression they give with their public messaging, but I suppose that’s inevitable. It seems nowadays* most people rush to the public to tell them everything in some piece of work they dislike is wrong, regardless of how important whatever fault they may have found is. It’s obnoxious.

*I suspect it may have always been this way.


Comment on Why Skeptics hate climate skeptics by ...and Then There's Physics

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Well, if we get to the stage where there is an explicit movement to actually restrict your free speech, then I would agree with you. Given that you seem to be responding to people who are making arguments (right or wrong) that certain views present a risk, then I think you’re engaging in hyperbole. If anything, you appear to be arguing that people should not present those views, which might seem somewhat ironic.

Comment on Week in review – science edition by stevenreincarnated

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Volcanoes change ocean currents. I’ll mark that in the evidence for solar driving ocean circulation column.

Comment on Week in review – science edition by ...and Then There's Physics

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<blockquote> ATTP, you just said what I said to Mosher upthread about 15 minutes ago. At least it seems so. </blockquote> Maybe so, in which case I guess we agree?

Comment on Has NOAA ‘busted’ the pause in global warming? by John Kennedy (@micefearboggis)

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Hi Don,

The full description is given in the paper:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadsst3/part_2_figinline.pdf

copied (pdf’s don’t copy and paste well. I think I got all the typos, but check the original in preference) here:
“A database of nearly coincident ship and buoy observations for the period 1998-2007 was created in which ship-buoy pairs were selected that lay within 50km of one another and on the same day. To avoid complications from diurnal heating, only observations taken close to local dawn were used. The average differences were calculated for each ocean basin, and for the globe. The average difference between ship and drifting buoy observations in the period 1998-2007 was 0.12degC, with ships being warmer than drifting buoys.”

Cheers,

John

Comment on Week in review – science edition by aaron

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Also, as some plants get bigger, their ability to take co2 out of the seems to increase. It is like capital investment in protein and ccarbohydrate production.

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